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The Main Dock => TSBB General Talk => Topic started by: Wayne Howard on Nov 08, 2024, 11:11 AM

Title: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Wayne Howard on Nov 08, 2024, 11:11 AM
When Connie and I relocated from south of Houston to Central Texas, I left behind my riding lawn mower. The premise was "If it's not growing there now, we are NOT importing it." Which is a handy slogan if you are on rainwater collection for your drinking water. So none of the 8,000 gallons we have storage for goes to watering plants. We are also not using water from the Edwards Aquifer as we don't have a well.

This leads into all the new subdivisions that are going in around us. Grass, new trees because they bulldozed the existing trees to build mansions. And using scarce resources to keep them green. The local water company has actually shut off the water to whole subdivisions because inconsiderate people were still watering their lawns during phase 4 restrictions. And then those same people complain because their lawns are dying.

We do have grass, however. Buffalo and Blue Gamma mostly. So once a year, I get to weed eat the little bit of yard we have. Just to knock down the "weeds" so that the Bluebonnets and Indian Paintbrushes have a chance to grow and bloom before the grass takes over again.  ;)
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Noemi - Ensenada 20 on Nov 08, 2024, 12:02 PM
Those water woes are spreading, even to this Midwest state.  And they're not going away soon.  For some people, the only way they understand that they are doing damage is to take something away.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Frank B. on Nov 08, 2024, 02:05 PM
I learned a valuable lesson during my eight years in Oklahoma.  landscape guy told me to forget shallow watering and don't waste your money on irrigation.  Plant sod of a native grass and let the roots naturally grow deep looking for water. In drought conditions it may brown out, but will come back with the first rain. Watering shallow encourages shallow root growth which is not a good thing.  My grass stays just as green as the three neighbors who water every day in the summer.

The back yard is full shade, with many deciduous trees.  I encourage anything that is green to grow there.  It is a mixture of some tall fescue, clover, dollar weed, some things I haven't identified yet and green moss.  In the spring I have wild flowers and I leave it till June to encourage the pollinators. Never gets watered with anything but rain water.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Brian N. on Nov 08, 2024, 02:08 PM
Water "wars" are being fought over the entire globe. Years ago we had a place in Vermont, a total of 3 houses on our hillside, all drawing groundwater. Twenty years pass and there is massive development of condos in the valley, and about  25 new homes on an extension road above us on the hill. Nearly everyday, our well was sucking air. We also had a small "feeder" stream to the Deerfield river nearby. The last couple of years that we had the house, the stream was mostly dry. An environmental wake-up call, for sure.

Just this past year we converted our backyard to mostly native plants, such as butterfly weed, blueberry, goldenrod, milk weed and yarrow. Have not had to water the back the entire summer.  I mowed a path through and around, for a great "nature" walk.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Riley Smith on Nov 09, 2024, 07:00 AM
If you don't understand about mowing here I'll explain. You do it to keep the snakes ran away. Otherwise you'll be walking on snakes, toads, and spiders. As well as ticks, fleas, and all sorts of nasty insects. And we haven't even gotten into leaves, deadfalls, and jungle which complicate things even more. It's pretty much the price of survival here too, when you have a mate that can grow almost anything.
I do make a point of NOT watering. The most insane thing I've ever seen was the Grants, NM golf course from the top of the mesa. Lush and green, in a landscape of lava and desert.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Brian N. on Nov 09, 2024, 09:46 AM
Riley - yes their are certainly many more critters in the yard now. Ticks are the nasty ones, but have been a problem for years even when I maintained a green lawn (white footed mice are a host). But the increase in bees, butterflies, rabbits and a large assortment of birds has been incredible. I've had a good number of voles, shrews, white footed mice and bats, some of which unfortunately end up in the pool skimmer. Have not seen any snakes, but black racers, garter and eastern king snakes have been spotted by neighbors in their yards, as well as the eastern box turtle. We have a resident red tail hawk and at night various owls in the trees. What makes it even more special, and hard to believe is that we are only about 50 miles from Manhattan. My daughter, who lives in Brooklyn (NYC) often comes out with friends to enjoy a weekend "in the countryside" and a short jaunt to fabulous Long Island beaches.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Riley Smith on Nov 09, 2024, 01:59 PM
Brian I have a resident black snake. I almost never see it as they are fast and shy but it's been around for several years. I don't worry too much about those, but the cottonmouth I almost stepped on last year was a different story. And I rescued a box turtle out of the pool yesterday, so there are still lots of critters. We had to resort to heavy equipment to clean some of the jungle out awhile back. And I've got some more of it creeping up on the west side of the house. If I had it to do all over again, there wouldn't be a tree, bush, flower, or vine within 50 yards of the house.

I DO have a pool and have to add water from evaporation. It was a promise to the missus; I'd never willing submit otherwise :D  I also have a water well and no shortage of water, even in drought. Water has never been an issue, it's TOO much of it that is.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: noelH on Nov 09, 2024, 08:18 PM
Living in a water "rich" area. We have good ground water in terms of quality and quantity.  Then there is L. Superior and all the artesian wells along the coastline. But I collect rainwater for all outdoors use except for the end of season power wash Vela gets. But times are changing. Rainfall has become more days apart resulting in drought conditions routinely with relatively heavy rainfall when it happens. So, for the past couple veggie growing season I have had to occasionally use tap water from the well. Little over 300 gallons of rain barrels end up empty.  Water everything by hand using a 2 gallon ancient steel Haws watering can and newer 3 gallon steel pale. Takes a bit of time, but I don't mind. Some people wonder why?  It's a waste not to. Then the comment "you need to get a life". Whatever that means???

No lawn. Planted ground cover that now has spread over what would have been from my perspective too large a lawn. Haven't had to mow, water, or fertilize a lawn for +30 years.  Mid-summer the ground cover becomes a dense field of tiny flowers. In the mornings and early evenings the buzz of bees is relatively loud. One must step very carefully during flowering season. Never new there was such a variety of different bumble bees in this area.  Also discovered bumble bee which are usually very friendly can sting you multiple times. I always thought bees could only you sting you once.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Riley Smith on Nov 10, 2024, 08:40 AM
Yep, bumble bees are bad to the bone. So are yellow jackets. Nests in the ground are like land mines. And then we have red wasps and guinea wasps too, that dearly like to hide their paper nests. You'll be stung before you even knew they were there. We keep a close eye and a can of wasp spray handy during wasp season. As far as "lawn" goes, it is called "grass" by me and is whatever grows there and not some artificial carpet, although we have supplemented the natural there on the beach in a few places because it is such a hostile environment. There definitely isn't a sprinkler system. I let the wildflowers grow along the hurricane wall there and it brings tons of butterflies and other wildlife in to the flowers. I don't think the millionaires like it but I don't care. I also left the last two "cigarette" rolls left by storms to decay to build the soil up. Once, everyone cut EVERYTHING down to the water. And immediately cleaned those cigarette rolls. And the resultant erosion was bad. Over time I've demonstrated that little strip between the water and land is of prime importance and have mostly left it to grow. And I've USED that cigarette roll to supplement the soil along the hurricane wall. Yeah, I understand Wayne, believe me I really do, and go as far as I can in that direction.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Norm L. on Nov 11, 2024, 01:48 PM
This trail is meandering a bit. I'm reading a book on the land of Australia. Being about the land much of it is about the life of the First People.
The way they lived was amazing, and still is to some extent. While there were Aboriginal groups that didn't like each other they would all come from up to several hundred miles to gather for eating festivals. Even hungry they would move on from a space with natures food sources so that enough was left so that it could grow and be plenty for the next season. No planting, just natures cycles.
But the mention of bees brought this on. One of their sweet sources was bee larvae. That is the stage that would develop into workers. It provides a source of protein with a sweetness.
Why not try this at home.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Noemi - Ensenada 20 on Nov 11, 2024, 07:22 PM
Quote from: noelH on Nov 09, 2024, 08:18 PMSome people wonder why?  It's a waste not to. Then the comment "you need to get a life". Whatever that means???

They're being dense.  What you're doing IS a life.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Doug SC on Nov 11, 2024, 10:24 PM
I have eaten bee larvae to see what it was like. Not bad though some of the pollen they are feed can be a bit bitter. Most people think that bears get in the hives for the honey. They actually go for the brood first they will eat the honey, but the protein packs a better survival punch than the sweet. I have lost hives to bears.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Norm L. on Nov 13, 2024, 03:07 PM
If you are hungry, you are hungry.
I've heard it said that humans can eat C-rats and MRE's.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Doug SC on Nov 14, 2024, 08:59 AM
Opps I meant bears not bees get into hives for the brood in my post below. :-[ I did an edit so it now reads what I meant to say.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: noelH on Nov 14, 2024, 07:32 PM
The Water Wars.
 
WaterWar I, decades ago the then Mayor of the City of Washburn thought it would be a good idea for a major "European" bottle water company to put in a facility utilizing the extremely high flow artesian wells found around Thompson's West End Park. You know, "good paying jobs and a waste having the water flow back into the Lake...." Not. Ends up just a few new poor paying jobs would have been created. No one wants any form of commercial development on prime recreational lake front property. Major local opposition. Maybe why she failed to get reelected. Among other reasons.

WaterWar II, more recently. Similar issue. Tapping the artesian wells, but along the northern side of the Bayfield Peninsula.  Again, major local opposition.  This time the judicial system squashed that attempt.  Maybe due to the Great Lakes Compact preventing diversion of Great Lakes water?

People and $$$$$s. Wake up. Somethings are "priceless".

Another Tangent though.  Our wonderful 7th Congressional Rep who only cares about us during elections season. The four northern counties of the district that border L. Superior add up to an insignificant population relative to the rest of the district.  Wants to change the Apostle Islands National Lakeshore into WI only National Park. I guess he needed to put something on paper that said he did something over the last session of the House of Rep.  Again $$$s. Notes it would bring economic development to the region. No one up here wants more of the "economic development" envisioned by doorknob rep. Tom.  He didn't communicate or consult with the Tribe, the County Board, the Cities of Bayfield and Washburn, the Township Boards that are adjacent to the National Lakeshore. He claims he did. No one seems to remember any communication. Does the Mayor of Hayward,WI that is located +60 miles inland count? He could have picked up a few +s if he would have addressed our lack of housing. Affordable and otherwise. An issue that will just get worse if his concept of bringing in more people with great paying jobs that "will" occur with a designation change for National Lakeshore to National Park. Doorknob!!
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Noemi - Ensenada 20 on Nov 14, 2024, 08:22 PM
Yeah, our mayors around here are all about "growth".  They want to "grow" the cities.  I guess they're after more tax dollars.  But more people mean more need for housing, more destruction of wild areas,  more use of resources, more fire/police needed....

And when will it stop?  When does all this growth stop?  Because if it doesn't, we end up with a fully paved planet.  And if it does, nobody is prepared to deal with more of a steady state - ALL budgets are based on such "growth".

I have pondered this for decades.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Frank B. on Nov 15, 2024, 07:36 AM
Quote from: Noemi - Ensenada 20 on Nov 14, 2024, 08:22 PMYeah, our mayors around here are all about "growth".  They want to "grow" the cities.  I guess they're after more tax dollars.  But more people mean more need for housing, more destruction of wild areas,  more use of resources, more fire/police needed....

And when will it stop?  When does all this growth stop?  Because if it doesn't, we end up with a fully paved planet.  And if it does, nobody is prepared to deal with more of a steady state - ALL budgets are based on such "growth".

I have pondered this for decades.


https://nationalland.com/blog/how-is-land-used-in-america-a-look-at-u-s-land-ownership/

Interesting article, the key point for me is that developed land in the US makes up 5.74% of the total.  Some friends and I had a debate about this, but it was all about local fears of development and I understand that.  They clear an area down the street from you to develop a housing tract or put in a shopping mall with parking it is personal and we get upset about it.  However, we are all mostly living in a home on land that was cleared for that purpose and we drive to the mall and park in a parking lot that was also cleared for that purpose. So can we deny that for others? Or how much is too much?

I recently read John Sandford's latest book, "Toxic Prey" which is a fictional account of a small group of people who had concluded that the earth was dying as a result of overpopulation.  They took an existing virus that was ten times as fatal as covid but not very contagious and "merged" it with the measles virus which is one of the most contagious.  They had a plan to take it to airports all over and and release it for maximum spread.  Their goal was to kill off half the population on earth.  Frightening book.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Noemi - Ensenada 20 on Nov 15, 2024, 12:42 PM
5.7% now, and how fast are we growing?  And how much of the total land is even livable?

That doesn't change the fact that we don't, overall, add wild lands and environments.  We take them away.

Margaret Atwood's "Oryx and Crake" novel starts from the same premise.  Definitely frightening.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: noelH on Nov 15, 2024, 12:44 PM
One issue up here is apparently "better" paying jobs. It is assumed that means manufacturing and resource extraction. In the past it was. Historically the towns in this area were manufacturing and resource extraction based. Population was denser than today. But then things changed. Most the timber was cut. Mills started closing down. All the commercially profitable  brownstone quarries closed. Over fishing and invasive significantly reduced commercial fishing. DuPont closed down. Populations dropped. Boom times were over. Slow evolution to tourist based economy.

Doubt if they can attract any "better" paying jobs envisioned by some. Decades ago Sony considered a CD manufacturing facility. They ended up selecting an area in the Pacific NW. Doubt if it is still around. A high tech company looked at establishing a manufacturing facility up here. One issue was lack of local workforce that could fill the companies need. I think they selected a site somewhere in S.D. Doubt if that company is around. They did R&D and manufacturing components for Blackberry,Nokia, Motorola.... Imagine the economic impact in an area with such a small population when a major company closes down.

It seems like every other major  Federal agency has a significant presence here. USCG, USDA, BIA, USGS, .... Then add the State and Local government employees. "Better" for some are manufacturing, resource extraction.  Not what some consider the "low" paying service sector jobs. They note the housekeeping, food, yard service tourist based workers that tend to be seasonal and lower paying v. the small manufacturing, skilled trades.  Have a feeling nothing unique to most other rural areas of America. It is just the way rural economies are.

Plus side of our tourist based economy has been. Never really any boom times, but never really any big bust times.  During the recession. Little impact on the number of tourist. During the Pandemic it was a mini-boom time. Maybe why at least in the City of Bayfield the population significantly grew, median household incomes exploded along the median price of a house.  Spill over to the rural areas close to town.

Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: noelH on Nov 15, 2024, 12:57 PM
Waiting for Elon to build a XAI facility in the town across the Bay. Guessing it would create "good" paying jobs. Green washing, granola city. The town that has an undersized waste water treatment system. End result has been too often raw sewage and storm water run off into L.Superior.

The probably under utilized giant coal, tire, and wood chip power plant that has been on the lake front since 1916 could be a source of electricity. Also sending coal dust and in the past by products of the burnt coal into the Lake. Today they spray the piles of coal, wood chips, and/or shredded tires with something that smells like vinegar to control the dust or maybe spontaneous combustion. Most of the current power production is probably heading south along the high powered transmission line running from the plant. Guessing plenty of reserve generating capacity based on the variation of exhaust coming from the stacks. We joke it must be real hot in Chicago when all the stacks are exhausting whatever.

I'm a NIMBY. A XAI plant would be out of sight and out of mind until the whiff of power plant exhaust hits us. Right now unless the town does a sewage dump you only notice a light dome in the distance from their excessive use of night lighting. My Bortle 2 night sky is now Bortle 3.  Mostly due to that town. Population is shrinking, but it is getting brighter at night.
Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: Norm L. on Nov 16, 2024, 02:47 PM
Small money likes rural. Big money likes urban as there are customers to justify investment.
Big money also likes minerals. Or cheap land that produces money. Pasture, particularly on Federal land. Timber.

Little can get by without water supply. There is a lot of land but finite amounts of water. I remember way back the oil rich but dry countries were working up plans to calve ice bergs and tow them "home" for fresh water. Desalination may be expensive but there is a lot of saltwater. Except the Great Salt Lake.

Then there are the builders and their buyers of coastal and flood plain homes. Their problem is too much water. And being permitted to build along beaches or rivers that had past histories of flooding or storm surge.

I have a friend Naval Architect who retired and built a home on a shoreline. He is analytical. (I've mentioned him here before on his work with AC boats and the winning Stars & Stripes.)

He studied weather histories, on hurricanes that hit the area, then had a scary and expensive amount of soil brought in so his home was raised. He has his own well and generator system (he's put so many into boats it's a given). The home was built to high hurricane standards. The only downside is if he is still there after a storm but there are no stores or hospitals for months.

Water giveth and water taketh away.

Title: Re: OT: Yards and yard work
Post by: noelH on Nov 16, 2024, 04:38 PM
Yard work never ends on the 40.  Today a bit of deforestation to enhance global warming though a few grams less of carbon dioxide utilized by the trees knocked down.  Also, added exhaust from the ancient ICE chainsaw.
Ended the session by flooding the motor. Two ways of "easily" starting a flooded 2 cycle chainsaw. 1. Close the choke fool (how I flooded the motor) and hold down the throttle to max while pulling and pulling the cord. 2. Just quit and eventually open up the case to access and pull the spark plug and pull, pull... Someone noted you can also just remove the air filter and open up the butterfly valve and I have forgotten the next step...

I just quit and went into the house for a hot cup of tea.  Now here and ignoring the problem. That is even easier or lazy?