Especially P-18 owners without a lot of room back there. I've always been a bit envious of the newer boats that have them but wondered how useful they are in practice and whether they interfere with access to the outboard.
A mixed bag. The obvious downside is obstructing access to the motor. Not a problem for me, as I rig the Torqeedo thus: a) raise and lower with line from motor (battery handle) to stern rail block; b) pin motor in dead ahead position and use only the rudder to steer; c) run remote throttle to the seat. Then I sit in the seat and steer and control speed from there. Gives good visibility and control. Took a while to get used to it (and learn to avoid the need for sharp turns, which would require motor and rudder to turn together). Useful when motoring or moored, but nervous making when underway with small passenger there given the high center of gravity and ease of going overboard!
I tried to upload photo but got error message that "the upload directory is full." Said to contact the admin.
I've been on a Rhodes 22 with the "catbird" seats and they were great, but the Rhodes has a lot of room at the stern. However, I would question a 200+ pound adult sitting in those seats on a P18.
I've had the same problem trying to upload photos. Also, I can't seem to be able to reply to most messages, just usually the last one.
Rum Line doesn't have them, but I wouldn't mind one on port side. Wouldn't want one on stbd side due to boarding ladder there.
We cut our catbird seats off, and are glad we did. They are a very wrong place to sit when sailing, and an attractive nuisance, dangerous for kids, grandkids. They made access to the motor very difficult. Some people modify their motor handle and say it's acceptable, but I cannot imagine how. The other obvious problem, they ruin the best seating position for the helmsman, in each rear corner bench seat. They also add 15# stern weight, not a good thing. We hesitated to cut ours off, but are so glad we did. They were very easy to cut off, leaving short stubs, and we kept the seats in case a future owner wants to reweld them. The remaining stern rails are still very stout. Catbird seats may be good for large boats, but we looked and found none by any other boat manufacturers under 30' long. On shorter boats, we just think they are a gimic to make a small boat look bigger.
Another change we made is removing the lifelines and stanchions. Having owner/sailed several 15 - 22' boats without lifelines and stanchions, we found them nothing but a nuisance, our first season of sailing. Last winter we removed them, and we're glad we did. Again we kept all the parts in case a future owner wants to reinstall them. Removal was easy and I used padeyes and panhead screws to fill the holes. If you want a word document and photos on seat and stanchion removal, email me at jcmanfredi@outlook.com and I will send those to you.
Cat bird seats pros/cons i have a p21 con get in the way of outboard motor,adds your weight to stern making bow lighter when solo sailing,pros better visabilty when motoring narrow/ congested channels, with bimini up i can watch sail shape and adjust as needed
Love them. On a long passage in moderate wind, they are a welcome alternative to the sideways-facing cockpit seats. On a run, if you are not racing, they provide a good view of the sails without neck strain. Coaching someone at the helm, I can handle the main (i.e., control the heel) without having the sheet in the person's way. And at anchor they really come into their own for watching birds and sunsets. We recommend using them with lawn chair cushions and appropriate beverages.
Now, all the drawbacks of the rail seats are real. So read through the thread and decide if those are your issues. If they are, that's OK, 'cuz if you're on our boat, we got dibs on the stern seats anyway.
My P23 is quite a bit bigger than an 18 but I really like having them. More importantly, my kids love riding in them.
We have a P21 and really enjoy the Catbird seats. Most of our guests on board find them very comfortable and truly enjoy the added visibility.
Yes, access to the outboard is a bit more difficult. I added an extension to the shift lever which made in/out/reverse much more convenient.
Those seats are one of the favorite options on our boat. Also make the entire cockpit much roomier when four or five people are on board.
I removed the seat on the motor side on my P-21.While the rails still get in the way it does help with access.