My husband and I bought our first Sailboat yesterday, A Potter 15! We are brand new sailors and need some advice on choosing the right size and type of motor. We live in WA which requires a 4 stroke model.
We will be sailing in fresh waters primarily. Any advice?
Hello, I also live in Wash. I own a potter 19. However I have had a few conversations with some P14 owners. It seems the the most popular has been a 2hp. It's light,very easy on fuel and should be plenty of power to be used on fresh water. One owner did have a 4hp but he had that because it was used primarily in salt water and because of the tides he felt a little more comfortable with the extra power. Congratulations on the P14, you're starting with a great boat.
I'm not sure where the Potter mount is, but most sailboats use a long shaft outboard. You need to make sure. So there's that. A 2 hp ought to be plenty. I had a 3.5 hp in a reasonably similar sized boat and never got much over an idle with it. You're limited to hull speed in many type sailboats, which is maybe 6-7 knots (I'm guessing here), and once you reach that limit, no matter how much power you add, the result is no longer linear and your extra power is just a waste. Congrats on the boat!
Honda 2.3HP with a standard , 15", shaft. Anything with more horsepower isn't needed.
Honda 4 stroke 2.3 HP BF2D air cooled outboard. The BF2D allows the motor to rotate so you can go in reverse. The BF2 does not. Air cooled means you don't have to worry about a clogged water pump or regular replacement of the rubber impeller. There are instructions for doing a 10-hour break-in that you should follow. They cost about $1,100.
Doug, I have been looking at those but haven't pulled the trigger. Would you recommend? And yes, brackish & saltwater use. I'd need a long shaft though. Still haven't decided on the replacement for the 2-stroke Nissan (Tohatsu).) I think Imma run a test with a kayak paddle today ;D
I have also been eyeing them for a while. Haven't pulled the trigger yet. Nor have personal experience with one. Yet quite a few small boat owners use them and seem pleased. I just missed a used one with less than 30 hours for $275.Another person answered the add just before I did. However, a new one has the advantage of knowing how it's being used. There are lots of YouTube videos. Here are 3 if you are interested
If you want to see it running and a review start this video at 8:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQuNqM8A4wM
If you want to see a carburetor cleaned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QLqHcxGsOg
Routine maintenace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOPYCLI-GOA
3 days ago, I bit the bullet and ponied up $2500 for a Spirit 1.0+ by EPropulsion. It's the equivalent of a 3hp gas outboard. The electric outboards have everything going for them but range. If you can live with the range limitations, the electric outboard offers a lot more - quiet, no vibration, lighter weight, turn on the switch to start.
I bit the bullet because I can't depend on my Honda 5hp to start on the 1st or 2nd pull. It's that simple. I found I didn't use my 19ft Mariner as often as I would like because I couldn't depend on the motor to get me home in a reasonable time if the wind died. The motor had had the carb professionally cleaned, and worked well for 3-4 months after that. Then quit starting again. When running, the Honda would go all day (8 hrs, at least 30 miles) on a 3 gal tank of gas. The Spirit + will run 2.5 hrs at 1/2 throttle, so probably 12+ miles range.
I really hated spending nearly the cost of the boat on a motor, but realized that was the only way I really going to use the boat.
Given the relative pricing, 4 stroke gas outboards without external tanks just don't make sense anymore to me. By having only a small internal tank (1 hr run time), you give up the big advantage of the gas outboard.
I'll report more as I gain actual experience with the electric outboard.
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC
I would avoid the Tohatsu, Mercury, Nissan 3.5 hp 4 stroke. My brother had one and a friend does as well. They just don't run right. I think it's the tiny jets that simply clog too easily. It's a shame, because the Tohatsu/ Mercury/ Nissan 4/5/6 hps are fantasic. I have 2 6 hps and they never fail.
Quote from: pgandw on Jul 09, 2023, 05:22 PM3 days ago, I bit the bullet and ponied up $2500 for a Spirit 1.0+ by EPropulsion. It's the equivalent of a 3hp gas outboard. The electric outboards have everything going for them but range. If you can live with the range limitations, the electric outboard offers a lot more - quiet, no vibration, lighter weight, turn on the switch to start.
I bit the bullet because I can't depend on my Honda 5hp to start on the 1st or 2nd pull. It's that simple. I found I didn't use my 19ft Mariner as often as I would like because I couldn't depend on the motor to get me home in a reasonable time if the wind died. The motor had had the carb professionally cleaned, and worked well for 3-4 months after that. Then quit starting again. When running, the Honda would go all day (8 hrs, at least 30 miles) on a 3 gal tank of gas. The Spirit + will run 2.5 hrs at 1/2 throttle, so probably 12+ miles range.
I really hated spending nearly the cost of the boat on a motor, but realized that was the only way I really going to use the boat.
Given the relative pricing, 4 stroke gas outboards without external tanks just don't make sense anymore to me. By having only a small internal tank (1 hr run time), you give up the big advantage of the gas outboard.
I'll report more as I gain actual experience with the electric outboard.
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 #4133 Sweet P
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC
There's a guy with a Welsford Walkabout who posts on several forums who uses an electric motor. He has set up solar panels and can run the motor all day if the sun is out. If interested, I'll try to find some links for you.
Looks like several of us are in the same situation. I'm pondering the purchase of a motor for my Hunter. I crushed my Yamaha 4hp. I just about bought a Tohatsu 3.5 the other day but "free shipping" turned into $245! After the above comments on the smaller motors, maybe it's good I didn't.
You guys keep talking and maybe I can make a good decision.
I'm glad you passed. Both my brother's and my friend's did the same thing. They would start and idle just fine but would stall when you applied some throttle. I took the carb apart several times and even bought a rebuild kit. When I got on line I found many who had the exact same issue. My brother took his to a dealer and they couldn't fix it! They ended up trading him for an older Mercury 6 (Tohatsu). My brother bought a new to him boat with a 9.9 Honda. He gave me the Merc which I'm using now. I also have a Tohatsu that I dropped on the ground. I broke the casting and the cowling hqas to be tied down but it still runs fine.
I maintained a fleet of Honda 2/2.3 motors when I ran Sage Marine and I've also owned the motor when had a Montgomery 15.
Never had issues with the motors. Started on second or third pull when cold. Almost always on first pull when warmed.
#1 issue is running an outboard often, ALWAYS do this through the winter, and using fresh gas (ethenol, E10, is fine). Any gas older than a month needs to be transferred to the tow vehicle lawn devices.
More discussion here - https://m17-375.com/2019/04/04/outboard-motors-fuel-issues/
6th season using a Torqeedo 1003 Travel without any motor issues. Have had an issue with the lever that holds the position in the kicked up position. The newer direct drive Travel of similar h.p. has a redesigned and looks like more robust "lever". L. Superior tends to be choppy to large swells. The lever could not withstand the load of the pounding. Maintenance. None. On paper Torqeedo notes 5yr/700 hrs the motor pylon seals need replacement.
I rarely motor. Just need to motor in and out of the marina (marina reg.) Battery is still very healthy. But I have the equivalent ~100 full discharges and have never run below ~45% capacity. Large up front cost. Since then outside of a replacement kickup lever zero dollars + few kilowatts to charge the battery.
If needing a motor for minimal use the Torqeedo or E-Propulsion are overall good values and reliable.
No shift into neutral or rotate the motor 180 degree for reverse. Just a second or two lag when twisting the throttle from forward to reverse. The torque generated from the combination of propeller design and electric motor is significant. Overall the thrust seems similar to the spec equivalent of an ICE, but thrust is available almost instantaneously at low motor speeds.
The old 3.5 TWO STROKE was a great motor for a long time. Previously, I'd used a trolling motor on my small boat, and no doubt learned to sail better with it's lack of range. But the gas motor opened up many more miles when the conditions didn't favor sailing. And beating into the wind isn't my favorite thing to do in my boat. It has better attributes for other points of sail.
Oh, don't think I don't know how to go upwind, because, chosing from a PLETHORA of ramps here always gave me the option of a downwind/down current to the ramp. In case the wind AND the electric turned armadillo and went belly up.
So, I'd therefore be inclined to just strap a gas burner on for what small amount of motoring I do. I'm tired of working on this thing! I'm severely weight limited too, so the choice is a hard one to match capability to minimal weight and complexity and have it work with the long boom and gaff of the catboat.
Quote from: Dave Scobie on Jul 10, 2023, 10:04 AMI maintained a fleet of Honda 2/2.3 motors when I ran Sage Marine and I've also owned the motor when had a Montgomery 15.
Never had issues with the motors. Started on second or third pull when cold. Almost always on first pull when warmed.
#1 issue is running an outboard often, ALWAYS do this through the winter, and using fresh gas (ethenol, E10, is fine). Any gas older than a month needs to be transferred to the tow vehicle lawn devices.
More discussion here - https://m17-375.com/2019/04/04/outboard-motors-fuel-issues/
The price is right, the name is right, I like the idea of air-cooled. Do you think the 2.3 will push my Hunter 18.5? I rarely sail anywhere but inland lakes.
Edit: I looked at the specs for the Sage 17 and your site says you used the 2.3 on it. The Hunter 18.5 goes about 350 lbs heavier.
The carbs on small outboards are factory set and you literally have to drill out a plug to get to the adjustment screw. I had a Tohatsu 3.5 that stalled on acceleration. The factory sent me a new carb under warranty and it worked great. I now have a used Suzuki 2.5 (different boat) and it has been reliable and easy starting.
Quote from: Captain Kidd on Jul 10, 2023, 11:06 PMI looked at the specs for the Sage 17 and your site says you used the 2.3 on it. The Hunter 18.5 goes about 350 lbs heavier.
For light duty non-cruising the Honda 2/2.3 would be fine.
I just got a notification about the new Mercury 7.5e electric outboard. They rate them in watts so it is 750 watt which they say is equivalent to a 3.5 four stroke.
There is a lot to like about it as many things have been well thought out. The weight is about 43 lbs.
The catch is of course the costs. WM has posted $3500.
Mercury will soon be out with a 20e and a 35e. I'm guessing if the exchange is linear that would be about 10hp and 15hp respectively.
I looked at Torqueedo and Mercury before buying ePropulsion. In my comparison, the ePropulsion Spirit 1.0+ won pretty handily. More power (1000 watts), bigger battery, significantly lower price than the other 2. Regardless, all 3 look like good motors.
Tested the Spirit 1.0+ out this morning on my 19ft Mariner. Results better than hoped. GPS said I was doing 4kts (3.8 kts against wind of 10kts), 4.3kts with the wind, using 400 watts. That gives 3+ hrs run time, 12+ mile range. Maybe do a little better in calms. 500 watt throttle gave 4.5 kts.
The only noise was the boat moving through the water. As I passed fishermen in their boats, could converse without shouting. I thoroughly enjoyed not having to pray motor would start while pulling a rope. And no reaching over transom to reverse motor - reverse is on the motor tiller. Space where the gas tank sat in the cockpit is now available for legs and feet. No worries about dripping gas or oil while carrying motor or battery. Motor with battery is less than 45lbs.
The only advantage of my 5hp Honda is a 30+ mile range with the 3 gal gas tank.
Capt Kidd - appreciate the offer about info on solar panels, but I won't be going there. Just not enough deck space with direct sun on my 19ft Mariner to support the size panels needed. If I run the motor at 400 watts, and have 200 watts of panels I need at least 3 hrs of direct sun for every hour of motor running to keep up. Pretty tough when the sunniest part of the day is spent sailing. Solar recharging would be practical at a mooring where boat is not used every day. But I have a lift with electricity at home, so it would only be when I go out on a multiday cruise that I might have a problem. The ideal solution would be a second battery at $1100, but that ain't happening.
Fred W
Stuart Mariner 19 Sweet P
Yeopim Creek, Albemarle Sound, NC
Here is a video comparison of several small HP gas and electric outboards. You get a review of each while being operated on the water.
part 1 gas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qrVo9g4mow
part 2 electric
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgGESRcVZFQ
Here is another link on some new options in electric motors. I find the new Temo-1000 a very interesting choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcRpx4CGSAk
There are even videos on DIY electric motors using the drive and foot of old gas outboards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3hTVGUT-94
For my specific use the the Temo 1000 would be ideal. I usually use 10-15% of battery capacity for my round trips into and out of the marina. So far, range anxiety has not been an issue. Longest motoring has only been ~6nm. Plenty of spare power left(+50%). Like the 360 rotation to make removing the motor from within the cockpit an easier process. Removing my Torqeedo requires me to unplug both battery and tiller. Then remove both before pulling the motor. Even then it's a bit of a pita to remove the motor unless seas are calm. Nice not having the "wart" hanging off the transom while sailing.
The adjustable shaft height is cool. Vela is in-between the long shaft and short shaft Torqeedo options. Short shaft functionally is almost as long as the Honda 2 I was looking at. In rough seas I wish I had the long version. All other days short works fine.
One correction to the chart. Torqeedo Travel has a 5 year warranty on motor and battery.
Thinking the Temo 450 might be adequate. Originally I was not even planning for a motor. The Washburn Boat Club(same seasonal ramp permit as the Marina) ramp at Thompson's West End Park just south of the Marina does not require you to motor in and out. But no on land storage allowed. Use to sail Laser and 420s out of that launch. Bit tricky on days with stronger Southerly winds.
Well, I did it: bought a motor yesterday. I found a brand new, never touched the water Honda 2.3 long shaft. An older fellow, boat builder, 30 year liveaboard bought it and discovered it was too long. Didn't want to bother with the headache of reshipping so I got it for a "used price" and tax free! Found it on Market Place.
It's small for my boat, but for my use I hope it will do the trick. Water-cooled so will be very easy to start regularly to keep the gas fresh.
Yea!!! New motor! I like! How come I NEVER see stuff like that in Marketplace?
I'm sure it will work out very well. On my Aquarius 23 I ran both a 24 volt MotorGuide electric trolling motor and later a Honda 8hp. Both worked great for their different purposes. Now on my Windrose 18 I've got a Tohatsu 6hp which does just fine, along with a 55 lb thrust electric trolling motor from Newport Vessels that I use from time to time on lakes. Biggest influence I found on engine reliability was using a 4 stroke model; I've just never had good fortune with a 2 stroke.
Similar to your experience, I found the Tohatsu on Craigslist having sat in a garage for several years and as best I could tell only used once. I love that thing! I've always had a heart for those Hondas and felt it would be my alternative if I could ever find one for the right price. For now, no need to upgrade, but I do keep it in mind.
Quote from: Dave Scobie on Jul 10, 2023, 10:04 AMMore discussion here - https://m17-375.com/2019/04/04/outboard-motors-fuel-issues/
Dave - I've read and even printed out your advice for outboard maintenance. Question: you recommend using both Stabl and Sea Foam. Do you halve the recommended additive or go full strength for each.
I'm going to do my best to take care of this new outboard.
TIA
Quote from: Captain Kidd on Jul 28, 2023, 02:42 PMQuestion: you recommend using both Stabl and Sea Foam. Do you halve the recommended additive or go full strength for each.
Full strength for both.
The stink and surface film of ICE. Have been noticing more oily film at the marina ramp recently. Downwind from a large, loud power boat yesterday I could smell the stench of the exhaust. Wondering if even the newer gen 4 stroke ICE are clean after viewing one of the videos link by DougSC. Something to consider between electric and ICE if either are an option for your use.