Did a little experiment yesterday, not very scientific but more "eyeball" close enough. I sailed for a while under main alone and tried to gauge the tack angles using the magnetic compass. Seems she will tack through about 40 degrees, perhaps a little more or less. One caveat is that I tend to over-steer when tacking, especially without the jib. I know the Precisions don't tack or go to windward like a J Boat, Sonar or other performance boats, but I thought it was fairly decent. We sailed along very well on the main alone; the helm was fairly well balanced. Any thoughts?
I haven't really compared the pointing ability with jib vs no jib. Because of my fixed jib blocks I'm not getting the best trim on the jib anyway so I doubt it helps much if any.
The boat does sail fine on main alone and with passengers on the boat that can be desirable for a few reasons:
- Less healing
- Room on the foredeck for someone to sit
- No reaching over people to trim the jib
- Can leave the forward hatch open for cabin ventilation
When sailing solo, I'll sometimes sail on main alone but having at least some jib out is nice If you need/want to heave to.
It was a "Free Sailing Sunday" at the sailing center last weekend and I volunteered to crew/skipper one of the Ensigns. It was really windy and we only had the jib out for a couple of the rides. Just like the Precisions, the Ensign was just fine on main alone.
With the Hobie Cats a jib helps with tacking if backwind them.
Brian, agree, the P165 sails quite well on the main alone, and if necessary can also sail on the jib solo, although not particularly well upwind, especially if the wind pipes up. I can't get anywhere close to 40 degrees upwind, although I haven't done a real scientific test. But when sailing upwind and trying to go around marks, I have to go well past 45 degrees to get around them. In fact, that happened two weeks ago in the race I mentioned here. The smallish P165 wing keel doesn't give much bite compared to most other boats. The larger Ruddercraft rudder seems to help some as well as tight stays.
Quote from: Shesaidno on Jul 21, 2023, 02:58 PMBrian, agree, the P165 sails quite well on the main alone, and if necessary can also sail on the jib solo, although not particularly well upwind, especially if the wind pipes up. I can't get anywhere close to 40 degrees upwind, although I haven't done a real scientific test. But when sailing upwind and trying to go around marks, I have to go well past 45 degrees to get around them. In fact, that happened two weeks ago in the race I mentioned here. The smallish P165 wing keel doesn't give much bite compared to most other boats. The larger Ruddercraft rudder seems to help some as well as tight stays.
Tried my boat on jib alone last year and had trouble tacking. Might try it again some time.
Ron - I based my estimate on close hauled to close hauled on opposite tack, based on compass readings. I could be estimating incorrectly. Also, I think the P165 points well with just the main sail. My sails are older, but seem to still have good shape. I had the halyard and outhaul very tight, mainsheet in and boom as centerline as possible. Vang was snug but not tight. The top telltale was just flipping, the other two streaming. Anyway, I've had days where the opposite tack seemed to be like I was going backwards ;)
I've yet to ever try the RS22 on main or jib alone - just haven't had the need to. Prolly should at some point just to get data. When the main is reefed, I will roll in the jib on the furler a bit to maintain balance. Playing around a bit with centerboard position also helps with balance.
Sailed the DS a few times on only one or the other, but never with very good results.
Brian, thanks, I'll try tomorrow and see what I can get.
Your estimation would be interesting, as your sails are newer high-tech. Also, I estimated just at the point of pinching. No bubble in the main, but another couple of degrees and the sail would have started to come across. Perhaps all the P165 sailors can try and we could compare notes. My suspicion is the P18 would do better.
Anyway, we got a great break in the weather, low 80's and dry. Think we are going simple today and will take out the kayaks.
When I'm trying to monitor my pointing ability, I usually use one of my sailing apps and look at my track after doing a bunch of tacks. The wind direction is always changing too much to where I can really trust comparing compass headings taken several minutes apart. I have to look at an average heading over a longer period.
What I've found with the P165 is that the pointing ability is very dependent on wind speed. I can usually get to what looks like 45 degrees upwind when I'm right on the verge of needing to put a reef in. It's been a long time since I've needed to sail with main alone (And since I got my high wind jib in, shouldnt hardly ever need to anymore) but I recall I had a decent pointing ability on it when sailing in very high wind.
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Brian, sorry, I was not able to test my pointing via compass/tacking on my P165 this past weekend, but hopefully can do it this weekend. Will let you know.