Right now I have my boat in secure, fenced-in outdoor storage in what is basically an open field. I've used this area for a couple years, and from what I've seen so far, organic material doesn't even make it into my cockpit, which is a lot different from what happens in my driveway which is under a bunch of trees. So basically it seems that it's just wind, (off-season) sun, and rain/sleet/snow (maybe) acting on my gelcoat. What are your thoughts about leaving the boat uncovered? Best holiday greetings, Frank
Frank, My concern would be U-V damage to all the surfaces. To be sure, it was more of a problem for me back when I lived at 26º latitude (now, 29º) than it is for you at 38º latitude, but still, cannot be ignored. Rain, snow, bird droppings, are all intermittent events, but that sun shines every day.
One guy's opinion,
Charles Brennan
I've used a tarp cover since the boat was new in 2008. I trailer so even during the summer the boat has a light duty tarp while she is in the driveway. Except for a small critter problem, the tarp has done a great job of preventing U.V. discoloration and keeping the boat clean. To me, it is definitely worth the few extra minutes to cover the boat, keeping most debris, bird poop and such out of the boat. This summer the tarp kept soot from wild fires off the boat (which turned out to be a real stubborn pain getting off the cars).
Hey Frank
What I would be worried about the most is freeze and thaw . I assume you have the boat tilted but none the less water getting into seams , cracks and crevices and then freezing may not be the best
Just a thought from somebody in New England
Take care
mike
Quote from: Mike Rog on Dec 17, 2023, 02:12 PMHey Frank
What I would be worried about the most is freeze and thaw . I assume you have the boat tilted but none the less water getting into seams , cracks and crevices and then freezing may not be the best.
mike
I agree with Mike's comments.
Very important! Agree with others, the UV damage (including that sun will reflect off snow to hull) and filling cockpit with water in whatever form (if/when drains clog, then rain like today's 3-4 inches will become a serious issue). The level of effort required to restore gelcoat will far exceed the LOE required to tarp it. Use the boom for support and put noodles or tennis balls on stanchions to prevent tarp puncture. Better yet, as many have done and I did last two years, build a quick frame using small diameter plastic pipe zip tied to stanchions and toss the tarp over that. For bow I ran a pole from mast to pulpit and draped tarp over that.
Gotta agree with the others here Frank. Unless you can come up with a very good reason(s) *not* to tarp it?
Here in SoCal, we don't have freeze/thaw cycles to worry about, but the constant smog deposits a very fine brown dust on everything. Luckily it's fairly easy to clean off, but still a PITA. I do have a cockpit cover that came with the boat, that extends from just behind the mast, around and over the pop top, and around and over the entire cockpit. I rarely use it though, because it can't be used with the pop top open, and I like to leave it open for ventilation, at least in Summer.
Just to be a contrary, I'm going to give a slightly different take.
I agree that covering the boat is better than not, - with some caveats. You either want to make sure the cover can withstand any weather that might come its way, or that you're able to to check on it periodically. Preferably both.
And by withstanding weather, I mean that rain and snow won't collect on it and collapse it into the cockpit. Then it's worse than not having a cover because now that cover is collecting water inside your cockpit and covering all the drains so that the water has nowhere to go.
The other thing that can happen is if the tarps end up tearing because of wind or whatever. Now you've got metal or plastic grommets whipping against the hull.
These downsides for tarps are based on experience with the sailing club. We'd bring a bunch of boats to this farm for winter storage. Some would get stored inside but at least 1/2 dozen would get stored outside and were covered.
The work was all done by volunteers who had already spent their morning cleaning, pulling boats out of the water, de-rigging, then driving 45 minutes to the farm. Weather was not always great.
So the work wasn't alway top notch to start with. And then the boats sat all winter and no one ever (or rarely) checked on them.
By Spring honestly I'd often wonder why we bothered. The boats all had water in them that might have drained without tarps. There were leaves and crap in them anyways. And the tarps to be removed which wasn't always easy since they might have a lot of water sitting on top of them.
I've also wondered if it might have been better to put some strategically placed holes in the tarp so that it would keep most stuff out but would let water drain. rather than collect.
The first year I had my boat I stored it outside next to the house. I stored it mast up and used a couple of tarps. I had to cut slots for stanchions and things like that. The advantage of storing mast up is that I could use the boom to tent the tarp so I had a nice steep peak to keep water and snow from building up too much. I still would brush the snow off occasionally. But I've seen people use an assembly of thin PVC pipes to accomplish the same thing without having to keep the mast up.
I agree re the need to check. Unless you are spending lots of time and money and engineering brain power to design the perfect cover, it can be overwhelmed by snow/rain. Checking allows you to dump it when its just a 10 gallon mini version of Crater Lake, Oregon. I think the issues of tears and whipping grommets can be solved in advance with careful attention to detail. But what falls from above is beyond our control....
For my first year, I always took the mast off when I parked the boat at my house between sailings. In that winter I got a standard boat canvas cover and did my best to fit that over my sailboats non-standard shape. I had the classic problem with it where the cockpit turned in to a bathtub and was a huge pain to empty. I got rid of that canvas.
Starting sometime around my second year I started just leaving the mast on it in my driveway (hanging between the bow pulpit and the transom mast crutch) with all the lines left connected to the boat between sailings. This really sped up setup time at the dock and also let me use the mast as a top beam for a gable shaped tent I formed by just throwing a standard sized tarp over the boat. 3 sides of the tarp are cinched down tight to dobie blocks and the 3rd side cinched down to the front of the trailer to leave that part of my driveway clear. (See picture below). I got in the habit of spending a couple minutes to throw the tarp over it between every sailing to reduce UV damage and the plant matter that quickly covers everything on my street.
The slope is steep enough that it can generally shed snow on its own. Though last year when we had freezing rain on top of snow, I went out and cleared it off manually so it didnt get too heavy. In snowier climates then seattle and if leaving the boat unused for the entire winter, I would definitely add a support from the middle of the mast to the cabin top so the weight cant get too high on the mast crutch and rudder pintles.
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Thanks so much, everyone! Please read to the end of this, because I have another question down there.
Covering is the undisputed winner on this question. I had been noticing how clean and white the weather decks have been looking when the boat is tied up to the pier during the season and was wondering if the main thing I needed to do to keep it that way was to keep it out from under the trees, etc. It obviously ain't that simple. During the previous couple of years, I have been covering it exactly the same way Straander covers his for pretty much the same reason. It worked fine. I actually previously bought a fitted cover for my P15 which I installed one season which also created a big ice-covered lake over the cockpit over the course of the season even though I used the mast ties that were supposed to prevent that.
Is anyone else using a commercial, fitted cover, and do you have any advice?
In my experience, the most important issue in covering a boat is to make sure the tarp is tightly secured. Just like the sails on your boat, you don't want the fabric to be flogging in the wind.
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This is after yesterday's storm with 60 mph winds. No problem with the tarp (but the generator in the background is still running due to power outage).
Dan
I also use the mast as "ridge" to form a tent over the boat. The mast is supported at both ends and in the middle by a large thick cushion on the cabin top. Works well at shedding rain and snow. I do remove built up snow, but heavy snow is infrequent here. This year I'm using a lighter tarp (blue, light duty) and I expect it will last the winter. The heavy tarps (I've come to realize) make it a bit too attractive and cozy for the local racoons. The tarp did survive yesterdays wind and rain (60 mph gusts) which took down a gigantic maple tree in my yard and turned a portion of my fence into toothpicks
I think everyone here has hit the most important points. I cover mine because I am perhaps obsessed with leaky deck penetrations and thus wet and rotten core. So the main reason I cover my boat (aside from it's what Granddad always did) is that it keeps snow, water, and ice off the deck, making less of a chance of leaks forming. And of course, I've seen plenty of boats stored at the lake which don't get covered, and the cockpits get filled with water and ice when the drains clog with junk.
I have always seen sailboats covered using the mast as a ridge pole. I think here in the mid-atlantic, this is not a problem because it seldom snows a lot. But it was once mentioned that heavy snow load could bend a mast, and then I got paranoid, so I added a 3rd support at the rough midpoint of the mast. Mine is right at the companionway/back of the house. I've seen others make a support that fits at the mast step. Even though these points are not specifically at the midpoint, the fact is they significantly stiffen the mast, and I think protect from snow load.
Speaking of snow load, the other most significant part of tarping the boat is to protect lifeline stanchions. I'm lucky with my boat that the stanchions can be removed from the bases, so that the tarp goes pretty much from the mast straight to the gunwales of the boat. In my case, that makes a steeper pitch to the tarp, and snow slides off pretty easily. But boats I see with stanchions and the tarp just laying over the stanchions, the tarp has a lower pitch, and snow tends to lay there. That weight will cause either a) the tarp wears faster and gets punched through by the stanchions, and possibly tears, or b) even before the tarp tears, the leverage against the stanchions easily bends them in. (Same reason why I don't tie fenders to lifelines, I tie them to the stanchion bases where there's less leverage.)
I've seen people cut the tarp to allow it to go around the stanchion. And I've seen people build frameworks out of wood or PVC pipe to prevent the tarp laying on the stanchions. I think the framework is better, so you don't have holes in the tarp potentially allowing more water to get to the deck. But either way, it is much more of a PITA than I have to deal with because of my removable stanchions.
I don't need the tarp to cover almost all of the mast like I do, but it's pretty easy to order a 12x25 tarp from online resellers. I don't buy tarps from big box stores because they tend to be more square-ish from an aspect ratio standpoint, and IMO hang too far down the sides of the boat. I tie my tarps with polyester utility rope (minimal parallel core, vs. more expensive double braid) instead of bungees, and NEVER garbage polypropylene utility rope from a hardware store. This way the tarp always stays snug. Bungees are such a PITA, trying to find a place to hook them, or they are never the right length, and they wear out too quickly from UV.
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Thanks, Brian, food for thought. When I took my tarp off last season, I noticed holes that formed in a couple places that I need to figure out and fix potentially with pieces of pool noodles— fortunately for me, no stanchions to worry about.
Frank - I use duct tape to cover the potential puncture points - seems to work. On the mast a coupe of layers around the base of the spreaders (hounds?) and the fork on the bow mast support also gets a layer of tape across the points. On deck the base of the shrouds (chain plates) get a piece of foam and tape. I also built a support block of wood at the transom where the mast overhangs to keep it from shifting. The lower part of the block fits over the transom, the upper is cupped to hold the mast. Set up has worked pretty well over the years (again, except for the critters). This year the tarp is a bit more "open", shorter on the sides and a couple of inches shorter front to back, than in past years as well and not so tightly tied down. The finished size of the tarp is about 15 feet wide and 19 feet long. Seems just the right size for the P165. The width just comes down to the trailer wheels and the length a few inches past the bow.
Quote from: Quantico Frank on Dec 23, 2023, 10:03 AMThanks, Brian, food for thought. When I took my tarp off last season, I noticed holes that formed in a couple places that I need to figure out and fix potentially with pieces of pool noodles— fortunately for me, no stanchions to worry about.
Note that I have all sorts of things on the mast (such as the hounds, steaming light, other hardware, etc.) all wrapped with exterior carpet to pad out the tarp.
Thanks, guys, I think I have some leftover bunk carpet that I'll duct tape to the sharp points, and that will hopefully extend the life of my tarp. I have a 15x25' tarp which does a good job of covering the boat.
A couple ideas:
*If one can avoid securing straps, bungees, etc. to the bottom frame of the trailer--by tucking/wrapping the tarp against the hull and strapping it tight where needed--that reduces access to the top of the boat by crawling critters. That is to say, if one can force the critter to have to scamper up the metal only, I think fewer critters will try and fewer still will succeed before they give up. To help tension the tarp, I use gallon jugs filled with water (now ice) hanging from the grommets. Where the tarp wants to hang down near the bow, I've wrapped it tight against the hull, again to give critters less purchase.
*This is more expensive, but canvas tarps are more environmentally friendly because they do not have plastic that deteriorates and gets into the environment, mostly as microplastics. Canvas is biodegradable after it outlives its usefulness. Our large (something like 20' X 12') canvas tarp was about $220; it overlaps stern and bow on our P-18 and covers most of the almost horizontal mast, and drapes down the sides to about 1' below the waterline.
Just for comparative purposes. I too like to tarp my boats. Though not a Precision, I always cover my Hunter 18.5. I made a ridge pole with 2x4's and set it on stands. It may be a little taller than needed, but it allows me access to the boat while still under cover. I can tarp my smaller, homebuilt, wooden boat, the Calendar Islands Yawl 16, with a tarp using the mast as a ridge pole supported on short stands.
The protection for the wooden boat is obvious. For the Hunter, keeping the sun off protects the gelcoat and finish. It still gets dirty, but a quick power wash does the trick.
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