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#81
TSBB General Talk / Re: New Boat
Last post by Ed - Aug 06, 2026, 07:54 AM
This kind of light hearted ribbing reminds me of the Chief's Mess. No matter how good or bad things were you could always depend on the Mess to kick you a little, in a kind way, just to keep you straight. I do miss those days, thanks for reminding me, ya'll. 
#82
TSBB General Talk / Re: New Boat
Last post by Doug SC - Aug 05, 2026, 09:24 PMWax on Wax off. Not exactly waxing poetic are we.
#83
TSBB General Talk / Re: New Boat
Last post by Noemi - Ensenada 20 - Aug 05, 2026, 08:47 PMWoody Wax is the EXACT opposite of Brazilian wax....
#85
TSBB General Talk / Re: A Trailer Sailor on the Gr...
Last post by Bob K - Aug 05, 2026, 12:34 PMDinghy nameed "Judy B"??
#86
TSBB General Talk / Re: New Boat
Last post by Chris Muthig - Aug 05, 2026, 08:54 AMI was going to make a joke about Aussie wax being the exact opposite of a brazilian wax, but somehow Woody Wax is worse. I'm just going to leave that one alone.
#87
TSBB General Talk / Re: 2 videos on Low wattage ai...
Last post by Charles Brennan - Aug 04, 2026, 02:52 PMDoug,
Generally speaking, if a ground is good enough to re-direct a direct hit to ground, it will be fine for a static dissipator to prevent a hit in the first place, bleeding off charge.
If a ground isn't good enough to re-direct a hit, neither will it be able to bleed off enough charge, fast enough on a static dissipator, to prevent a strike.
Ain't really any viable half-measures that I know of; your grounding is good enough, or it's not.
I would caution you once again, not to put too much into all this, as fresh water lightning mitigation is far more difficult than salt water lightning mitigation. For example, where 1 sq ft of ground plate is acceptable in salt water, it needs to be closer to 3 sq ft, in fresh water.
While I understand (and believe in!) the advantages of charge bleed-off static dissipator systems, the Industrial Powers That Be, do not.
The NFPA 780 Lightning Protection Standard does not include dissipators as an approved method of lightning protection. In fact, multiple technical reviews and field studies have failed to demonstrate that dissipators prevent lightning strikes or reduce damage.
I forgot to mention in a previous post, that this general NFPA knowledge (which I had to look up) was another of the things discouraging me from implementing lightning mitigation on my SCAMP. I knew that dissipators are still controversial in some circles.
I just think of them, like Technological Chicken Soup:
It couldn't HURT!!
Hope this clarifies,
Charles Brennan
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:51 PMOne last thought would the ion dissipater that is grounded even if the ground is inadequate for a hit reduce the chances of being hit?No real way to know the answer to that one.
Generally speaking, if a ground is good enough to re-direct a direct hit to ground, it will be fine for a static dissipator to prevent a hit in the first place, bleeding off charge.
If a ground isn't good enough to re-direct a hit, neither will it be able to bleed off enough charge, fast enough on a static dissipator, to prevent a strike.
Ain't really any viable half-measures that I know of; your grounding is good enough, or it's not.
I would caution you once again, not to put too much into all this, as fresh water lightning mitigation is far more difficult than salt water lightning mitigation. For example, where 1 sq ft of ground plate is acceptable in salt water, it needs to be closer to 3 sq ft, in fresh water.
While I understand (and believe in!) the advantages of charge bleed-off static dissipator systems, the Industrial Powers That Be, do not.
The NFPA 780 Lightning Protection Standard does not include dissipators as an approved method of lightning protection. In fact, multiple technical reviews and field studies have failed to demonstrate that dissipators prevent lightning strikes or reduce damage.
I forgot to mention in a previous post, that this general NFPA knowledge (which I had to look up) was another of the things discouraging me from implementing lightning mitigation on my SCAMP. I knew that dissipators are still controversial in some circles.
I just think of them, like Technological Chicken Soup:
It couldn't HURT!!
Hope this clarifies,
Charles Brennan
#88
TSBB General Talk / Re: 2 videos on Low wattage ai...
Last post by Charles Brennan - Aug 04, 2026, 02:24 PMDoug,
On the electronic equipment I used to work on, over time, we learned that our printed circuit board (PCB) traces needed to have sweeping curves on the part of the PCB where the parts of the product that came into contact with lightning strikes were located. Back when we had sharp 90ยบ turns, the voltage spike would simply refuse to turn the corner and just blow the printed circuit track off the PCB and fly off into space. We had components that could direct or mitigate the voltage spikes and gentler PCB curves, gave us enough time for the strike to reach those devices.
As another general rule, you NEVER want to give lightning a choice. Too often, it simply splits the difference and goes right down the middle, instead of where you were trying to direct it.
Possibly the sole advantage for two zincs, would be in increasing the efficiency of the grounding plane, but achieved at the cost of controlling the strike path. Talk about a loose cannon!!
So I've spent most of my life battling lightning, going clear back to the 8th grade, when a lightning strike took my fledgling ham radio station, off the air.
The foot-dragging has been for two issues:
1) Evaluating the pros/cons of a potential flashpoint problem: the braid mast connection.
2) Mulling over the difference in efficacy, between simply letting the top of the mast get hit and funneling the energy to the water (worked twice on Urchin, after all) versus adding a static dissipator, to prevent the strike in the first place. The two drawbacks to that, are 1) cost and 2) its physical location interfering with my pig stick flags. The question is over how much to mitigate a low-probability event. Having seen so much damage over so many years, one tends to get the least bit fatalistic.
So I sit and mull.
Each of us helping anyone else, with whatever we happen to know about. I have gotten good info from you about tents and coolers and whatnot that I would have otherwise not had even a clue about their existence.
Has there EVER been ANYTHING I did, that I did NOT post about it?!?!?
Hope this clarifies,
Charles Brennan
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMDoes the braided copper as it leaves the mast need to be directed away in more of a perpendicular manner, rather than hanging down close to the metal mast?Actually, they have published radius measurements, for different types of grounding wires for different types of lightning systems. As a general rule, you want everything to be gentle curves, rather than have any sharp bends.
On the electronic equipment I used to work on, over time, we learned that our printed circuit board (PCB) traces needed to have sweeping curves on the part of the PCB where the parts of the product that came into contact with lightning strikes were located. Back when we had sharp 90ยบ turns, the voltage spike would simply refuse to turn the corner and just blow the printed circuit track off the PCB and fly off into space. We had components that could direct or mitigate the voltage spikes and gentler PCB curves, gave us enough time for the strike to reach those devices.
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMI should avoid any air gap in the setup.Yes.
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMQuestion, would two grounding points help? Like having one long braided copper strap attached in the middle and running off in two separate directions to two zincs.ANOTHER Scary Question!!
As another general rule, you NEVER want to give lightning a choice. Too often, it simply splits the difference and goes right down the middle, instead of where you were trying to direct it.
Possibly the sole advantage for two zincs, would be in increasing the efficiency of the grounding plane, but achieved at the cost of controlling the strike path. Talk about a loose cannon!!
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMAlthough if I recall you and lightning seem well acquainted.All too well, I'm afraid. 4 hits and many near misses. I used to put up antennas and towers, so I saw a lot of dead TV antennas and repaired a lot of towers. It's a real trip, to have to replace a section of tower because one of the three legs simply isn't there, any more; just blobs of metal on the ground. Then I went to work for an electronics manufacturer where lightning was a significant part of our work load.
So I've spent most of my life battling lightning, going clear back to the 8th grade, when a lightning strike took my fledgling ham radio station, off the air.
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMYou have stated you haven't yet tried to mitigate a lightning strike on your Scamp. I assume this is because of the difficulty of securing an adequate ground.The 4" X 6" zinc block previously alluded to should be a sufficient plane, helped along with hefty copper braid.
The foot-dragging has been for two issues:
1) Evaluating the pros/cons of a potential flashpoint problem: the braid mast connection.
2) Mulling over the difference in efficacy, between simply letting the top of the mast get hit and funneling the energy to the water (worked twice on Urchin, after all) versus adding a static dissipator, to prevent the strike in the first place. The two drawbacks to that, are 1) cost and 2) its physical location interfering with my pig stick flags. The question is over how much to mitigate a low-probability event. Having seen so much damage over so many years, one tends to get the least bit fatalistic.
So I sit and mull.
Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMSo, thanks for what you have put up with in this discussion.Continue to ask any questions that may come up! This is EXACTLY the reason FOR the TSBB!!
Each of us helping anyone else, with whatever we happen to know about. I have gotten good info from you about tents and coolers and whatnot that I would have otherwise not had even a clue about their existence. Quote from: Doug SC on Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMIf you do come up with something, please post what you did.Seriously?!?
Has there EVER been ANYTHING I did, that I did NOT post about it?!?!?
Hope this clarifies,
Charles Brennan
#89
TSBB General Talk / Re: 2 videos on Low wattage ai...
Last post by Doug SC - Aug 04, 2026, 01:51 PMOne last thought would the ion dissipater that is grounded even if the ground is inadequate for a hit reduce the chances of being hit?
#90
TSBB General Talk / Re: 2 videos on Low wattage ai...
Last post by Doug SC - Aug 04, 2026, 01:30 PMMy conclusion to all this is that the probability of being hit is low but if it does, we are likely to be burnt toast! Although if I recall you and lightning seem well acquainted.
I should avoid any air gap in the setup. Does the braided copper as it leaves the mast need to be directed away in more of a perpendicular manner, rather than hanging down close to the metal mast?
You have stated you haven't yet tried to mitigate a lightning strike on your Scamp. I assume this is because of the difficulty of securing an adequate ground. Question, would two grounding points help? Like having one long braided copper strap attached in the middle and running off in two separate directions to two zincs.
My radar app refreshes every 15 minutes. The lightening app I use seems to show separate strikes and though there is a delay between when I hear a close strike, and it shows on the app it seems to be quicker than that.
I realize my ignorance, and how it impinges on your time. So, thanks for what you have put up with in this discussion. If you do come up with something, please post what you did.
I should avoid any air gap in the setup. Does the braided copper as it leaves the mast need to be directed away in more of a perpendicular manner, rather than hanging down close to the metal mast?
You have stated you haven't yet tried to mitigate a lightning strike on your Scamp. I assume this is because of the difficulty of securing an adequate ground. Question, would two grounding points help? Like having one long braided copper strap attached in the middle and running off in two separate directions to two zincs.
My radar app refreshes every 15 minutes. The lightening app I use seems to show separate strikes and though there is a delay between when I hear a close strike, and it shows on the app it seems to be quicker than that.
I realize my ignorance, and how it impinges on your time. So, thanks for what you have put up with in this discussion. If you do come up with something, please post what you did.