Almost-A-SCAMP Progress Report #2-9A

[Charles Brennan]

How To Install a Bow Light Base:
Just screw it to the deck, right? 
Not when you're building a boat, practically from scratch. 
EVERYTHING you try to do, you have to back up three steps, to get to it. 
First, you get a jack and start jacking the hull level:
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Checking the  level placed on the cockpit deck, (which is parallel to the waterline) every few pumps of the jack:
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Then you determine the angle on the sloped cabin top, that is required to make the nav light base level:
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And scribe that angle onto a 2X4 and cut it lengthwise, so you can use a hole saw on the drill press, to make the bow light base.
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You also have to keep checking the deck block bevel for level, while you adjust slightly with a belt sander.
Wasn't quite there yet.  Took about three more tries, after this pic was taken.
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Why is the block so thick?    You can get a lot of light scatter off the cabin roof at night, (interfering with night vision)  if the bow light is closer to the cabin roof.
In fact, I'm considering painting the top of the deck block flat black to forestall any light scatter, even further.

Eventually, you get it level in both planes:
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See?    EASY!! 
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Well . . . .  after you level the block on a wedge, to over-drill vertical mounting screw holes and wiring hole, to fill in with epoxy at a later date.
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And add a counter-sink to improve bedding with sealant.
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With 2 coats of epoxy and the holes filled:
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Guaranteed Boat Building, Folks!! 
(If we don't do it Right, we do it Over!!) 

Built a grate for the foot well and originally, it flexed a little but I paid it no mind; because after all, the decks, the seats, EVERYTHING in that boat, flexed a little.  Just figured that's the way wooden boats worked.
Then I glued down the decks and everything got stiffer. 
And I filleted all the deck joints and the deck got much stiffer, again. 
And NOW, the foot well grate felt all flexi/flimsy to me and I didn't like the change, when walking from the deck to the foot well grate. 

So I pulled it and added several stiffeners underneath, cutting them from my remaining scraps of 9 mm plywood.
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Gluing them will make it stiffer and and adding fillets along the seams/edges will make it stiffer, still.
Big Believer in fillet strength, now. Consider me a Convert. 
(Still hate doing them, though!) 

First coat of epoxy on the grate stiffeners and the bow mount.
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2nd coat:
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And a 2nd coat of epoxy on the fiberglass strips.
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With the last of the epoxy, I primed the cabin top next to the mast ramp.
I want to fillet in all the gaps around the mast trunk, before I apply a layer of 6 oz/ fiberglass on the cabin top.
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Like this:
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It would be far too tough to apply the glass first and then try and reach in with fillets, after the boat is flipped over and I'm working in tight quarters.

Speaking of things to do before flipping the boat again.
I needed to get the fore and aft cabin roof doublers installed before flipping, so that I could fillet the underside of the cabin roof edges.
Front edge doubler:
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Yes, it really DOES need that many clamps to get a tight curve along the length; seems like you get a gap every 3 inches, if you don't..

Back edge doubler:
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And while I had a little fillet mixture left over, might as well fillet the two cabin sides.
Just like every through-fastener goes through epoxy instead of wood, every piece of wood joined to another piece at an angle, will be filleted.
Couldn't do that until the doublers were in.
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A reasonable fillet.

And what happens when the filleting goo starts to kick off early, on you. 
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That blob a few inches from the top is where things started getting rubbery, while I was smoothing the edges with a rag dipped in alcohol.
Since that never happened to me before, I wasn't sure what to do and I decided to just leave it alone.
Figure I can always sand it smooth later on and at the very worst, grind it off completely and try again.
Very liberating, building your own boat!    You can change or re-do, anything ya want! 

Up next, is a ton of sanding and some yard work; and I'm sure NOBODY wants to see pics of THAT!! 
Sometime next week, we'll flip the boat again (hopefully, for the last time!) so we can fillet and then paint the upside down cabin roof, aided by Gravity. 

Charles Brennan

[Ed]

Geez, you make me tired Charles, keep up the good work. Sailing Urchin tomorrow morning and hoping I don't make any more faux pauxs so we can sail a few hours without problems.

[Charles Brennan]

Ed, I read in another post where you were having difficulty in tacking, owing to "trimaran reflexes".

What used to work for me, was to start like you were tacking a trimaran, then immediately switch, like you were tacking a  dinghy. 
Imagine a center line down the length of the boat, for a reference point.
To start a tack, swing the tiller hard over, 75º - 80º from center line.
As soon as the stern starts to swing around, immediately back off the tiller until it is about 45º off the center line and hold it, allowing the bow to come around, until finally returning the tiller to the center line.

The fore foot on the Windrose 18 is cut back pretty dramatically, compared to your previous Potter and Hunter and the result is, you have an 18 foot boat with a 15' 10" water line and that bow can get whip-sawed pretty easily and end up in irons. With the swing keel down, you can pirouette practically in your own boat length. As a result of that bow sweep, the boat tends to act more like a dinghy, than a blue water cruiser. The natural instinct to counter that feeling, is to push the tiller hard over.  But that big honkin' rudder starts acting like a barn door and can stall you out right there, especially in lighter airs.

That's why you kick the tiller hard over, only to start the hull turning and then quickly back it off to a normal tacking tiller position, so that you don't cause excessive drag.
Give it a try.
I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, out there having fun sailing, while I'm in a race to see which sands off first: Fillet seams, or my fingerprints! 

Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[Doug SC]

You might also let the jib backfill as it starts around for a couple of seconds. However, I am sure CB knows how to tack that boat. A hard over rudder does act like a brake.

[Captain Kidd]

Good work again. Kinda late to be saying this, but you don't need a rag to smooth fillets. I'm sure you're wearing nitrile gloves. Just dip your finger in alcohol and smooth away with your finger. Works like a charm.

BTW: how much epoxy will be in your boat when finished? (in gallons)

[Spot]

I have yet to use alcohol and rag nor alcohol and a finger.

I just pipe the fillet mix in over a brushed coat of neat epoxy and smooth with the radius'd end(s) of the right size stir stick. If any escapes beyond the 'line of tangency', I collect it with a spreader and apply it somewhere else. Small batches, especially in warm weather or with faster curing resins.

And now back to our regularly-schedule Scamp programming!
 

[Captain Kidd]

I have yet to use alcohol and rag nor alcohol and a finger.

I just pipe the fillet mix in over a brushed coat of neat epoxy and smooth with the radius'd end(s) of the right size stir stick. If any escapes beyond the 'line of tangency', I collect it with a spreader and apply it somewhere else. Small batches, especially in warm weather or with faster curing resins.

And now back to our regularly-schedule Scamp programming!
 

I believe it was the famed Charlie Jones that recommended the alcohol/finger technique. I too use tongue depressors/craft sticks to form fillets while scraping away excess with the spreader. The final step with the finger gives the fillet a very smooth finish.

As long as the builder is satisfied, what does it matter?

[Frank B.]

I sprung for a case of empty caulk tubes on the skiff build.  The good: it made it very easy to control the flow in the joint in all positions, but still had to have minor smoothing with the finger, alcohol method. Limited cleanup, just throw the empty tube away.  The bad: The tubes a little expensive, there was waste in that you left a little product in the tube that got thrown away. Loading a tube is an extra step under the gun of open time. If you are working in relatively hot weather, the waste went up because you couldn't work a full tube load with limited open time.

Think they are great for 60-70F temps, but I was working at 85-95F, but in fact I tried the cake decorating method and made a mess of it.  For short fillets I just put it on a 6" drywall knife and pushed in the corner then worked it with my finger.

[Charles Brennan]

Dale, Your query:

BTW: how much epoxy will be in your boat when finished? (in gallons)

I'm just now starting on gallon #7 and barring anything unforeseen, expect I will finish principal construction with it. The SCAMP manual lists epoxy requirements as 6+ gallons, so I feel I am in the ball park.

Kinda late to be saying this, but you don't need a rag to smooth fillets. I'm sure you're wearing nitrile gloves. Just dip your finger in alcohol and smooth away with your finger.

Not too late, as I'm only about 50% of the way through all the filleting chores! 
I wear latex gloves when applying epoxy and/or paint, (much easier to get on and off) and nitrile gloves exclusively when filleting, as the latex just doesn't hold up.
I should probably have clarified what I was doing, in more detail.
(It's always so clear in my head when I write these things, I don't know why nobody else ever understands what it was, that I MEANT to say!) 

When I first get the fillet down, I roughly shape it with a tongue depressor. I have two widths of depressors and regard them as my principal fillet sticks.  I cut off one end square and use sandpaper to put a bevel on it.
After the fillet has started to cure, I use the alcohol-wetted finger to smooth the fillet.  After it is a little more solid (rubbery) I stretch a piece of tee-shirt material over my finger, dip it in alcohol and use the mild abrasion of the soft jersey fabric, to to even out the fillet along its' length. It would be a mess, if I tried that when the fillet was still wet. The slight ridges left behind by chiseling away the excess, are taken care of at this time.  A wetted finger alone won't clean those ridges, a wetted tee-shirt over a finger, will.

Spot,

I have yet to use alcohol and rag nor alcohol and a finger.

I ASPIRE to be that good!! 

I just pipe the fillet mix in over a brushed coat of neat epoxy and smooth with the radius'd end(s) of the right size stir stick. If any escapes beyond the 'line of tangency', I collect it with a spreader and apply it somewhere else.

"Right size stir stick".
If only. 
I have two different sizes of tongue depressor, I have wooden beads of three different diameters that I have drilled and installed small lengths of dowel like a Tootsie Roll Pop and cut up rubber kitchen spatulas into varying shapes, all with ABYSMAL success!!    I had high hopes for the wooden beads, since you could change directions, without leaving the dreaded "swoosh" but it ended up working worse, than anything else.

Tongue depressors, with one end cut square and chiseled, are what I use the most.  I fillet with the rounded end and flip it and scrape the edges, with the chiseled end.  But I hasten to add, the fillet stick is only for the most basic fillet material application.  All working of the fillet joint, has evolved into using a thumb for joints > 90º and a middle finger for joints < 90º.

Small batches, especially in warm weather or with faster curing resins.

Warm weather is mostly what I deal with and I have no fast cure batches.  My batches have consistently been 4 oz. batches for the vast majority of jobs.  I have used 8 oz. at a time, when I was covering a large area at once and could pour it out, like fiber-glassing the hull, etc.  I also use 2 oz. batches on occasion, for very small jobs.

Frank,

I sprung for a case of empty caulk tubes on the skiff build.

I was tempted to acquire some; thanks for the heads up!

Think they are great for 60-70F temps, but I was working at 85-95F, but in fact I tried the cake decorating method and made a mess of it.

I stop at 85º or more, but I have only experienced 60º - 70º a few times, during this build. 
I also considered the cake pastry tube method and my wife advised against it.
What seems to work the best for me, is to use a zip-lock sandwich baggie as kind of a Poor Man's pastry tube.  I put it in a paper mixing cup, with the edges of the baggie folded over the cup.  After mixing the fillet mixture, I scoop it into the baggie, then force the mixture into one corner by scraping a dowel on the outside of the baggie.  Seal the zip lock and grab the two corners opposite the mixture corner and hold them together and twist the baggie a few times. Snip off the end of the mixture corner and I"m ready to go. Main problem there, is consistently getting a cut-off corner aperture that is usable, so my fillet beads tend to be two sizes: Too Big and too Small. 

Thanks to all and please, keep the comments coming! 
Even the ideas I end up dismissing out of hand, are frequently the inspiration for a different idea!   
Charles Brennan

[Doug SC]

I love what the fillets do and don't enjoy doing them. I suppose it's true of many things in life that we are compelled to do. They say the journey is often more important than the destination. I did enjoy building a sea kayak. I think using it has been more fun than the building, but that hasn't diminished the pride in accomplishing the build.

Maybe not, but I think I'm looking forward to seeing your Scamp on its maiden voyage as much as you are.

[Charles Brennan]

Doug, Your statement:

They say the journey is often more important than the destination.

Is absolutely True for sailing; not so sure about boat building. 
And definitely NOT True, for Filleting!!   

Maybe not, but I think I'm looking forward to seeing your Scamp on its maiden voyage as much as you are.

From your lips, to God's ears, Doug!! 

Thanks,
Charles Brennan

[Spot]

Spot,

I have yet to use alcohol and rag nor alcohol and a finger.

I ASPIRE to be that good!! 

I just pipe the fillet mix in over a brushed coat of neat epoxy and smooth with the radius'd end(s) of the right size stir stick. If any escapes beyond the 'line of tangency', I collect it with a spreader and apply it somewhere else.

"Right size stir stick".
If only. 
I have two different sizes of tongue depressor, I have wooden beads of three different diameters that I have drilled and installed small lengths of dowel like a Tootsie Roll Pop and cut up rubber kitchen spatulas into varying shapes, all with ABYSMAL success!!    I had high hopes for the wooden beads, since you could change directions, without leaving the dreaded "swoosh" but it ended up working worse, than anything else.

Tongue depressors, with one end cut square and chiseled, are what I use the most.  I fillet with the rounded end and flip it and scrape the edges, with the chiseled end.  But I hasten to add, the fillet stick is only for the most basic fillet material application.  All working of the fillet joint, has evolved into using a thumb for joints > 90º and a middle finger for joints < 90º.

Small batches, especially in warm weather or with faster curing resins.

Warm weather is mostly what I deal with and I have no fast cure batches.  My batches have consistently been 4 oz. batches for the vast majority of jobs.  I have used 8 oz. at a time, when I was covering a large area at once and could pour it out, like fiber-glassing the hull, etc.  I also use 2 oz. batches on occasion, for very small jobs.

...

Even the ideas I end up dismissing out of hand, are frequently the inspiration for a different idea! 
Charles Brennan

I would not say that I am good, I just try to get through fillets with the least amount of muss and fuss possible.

My favorite fillet tool is the 1" (2.5cm) variety stick/depressor for the obtuse and the 3/4" (2cm) for right angles. The 1" is not always available in department stores but can be had online. The 1" one in the caliper below is wiped clean and saved as I cannot find the rest of them (if I even still have any...). The tan fillets (fine sawdust added to filler) under the glass tape are from the 1" and the white fillets (glass spheres as filler)  to the frames arte from a 3/4" (second picture below). The third stick is a coffee stirrer and would only be used to dip into pigments or stir together blobs of 1:1 5-minute epoxy.

My fillet mix is 1 part mixed epoxy, 2 parts filler (glass spheres and/or wood flour), and 1 part fumed silica to keep it from 'slumping'. Recipe is from an old MAS epoxy video IIRC.

I also use smaller plastic bags more than piping bags as we have sandwich and storage bags at the ready in the kitchen which is adjacent to the garage.

Your mention of making one end of the stick 'not round' aka into a scraping tool is a great takeaway that I will try in the future. Currently I use a small auto body type 'Bondo' spreader to clean up the overages on the fillets.

Charles, even though I like to give you 'the business' occasionally on composite stuff, I am a great fan of your boat building work and journalism.

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