Sailed 2 Saturdays in a row, the Frustration Continues

[Ed]

   Temps in the mid 60's two weeks ago and mid 50's last Saturday so Becky said we were sailing.  Two weeks ago we just putzed around in the big basin on Allatoona, a flood control lake that is way down preparing for spring rains, in 3 - 5 kts of wind.  Got up to 3.2 a couple of times, nice crisp tacks, for light winds, (new rudder seems to have solved that problem for me) had lunch on the water, and dogs enjoyed themselves.
   Last Saturday Becky decided she wanted to join the club for Frostbite Race #1.  8 boats total showed up.  We were the smallest and had the highest PHRF (305), realized when we were uncovering everything that the extra sail stowed in the Vberth was the Storm Jib not the Genoa.  5 kts of wind predicted but that didn't happen very often. We got up to 1 kt while others were setting the markers, and we were hanging out near the start line.  Just as the 1 minute horn sounded I had to give way to a Catalina 25 on a starboard tack and it took a few minutes to cross the start line after that.  We were behind everyone, again, but were keeping pace aft of a Hunter 23.5 for a few minutes after crossing the start line on a close reach with a little wind off the port side.  The Hunter started turning upwind a little so I tried to, without success.  The boat fell off the wind even further and would not respond to anything I did except go further downwind.  Becky started giving me the stinkeye, again. Bumped the keel since we were close to shore and tried to tack.  Boat stalled so we jibed, I hate jibing, about 240 degrees figuring we could reach on a starboard tack for a while to get away from the shore.  Ended up paralleling the start line, again, and whenever I tried to turn up toward the wind the boat started the lazy jibe thing again regardless of where I had the tiller/mainsail/jib/bodies. Becky started in on me, again with: "What are you doing?  Do something!  I don't like this! etc. When the 3rd jibe started the fleet was on its way back to the finish line and I was closing on the little island that popped up with the low water level in the middle of the lake.  Fired up the motor, withdrew from the race, and repositioned for the next race.
   While waiting, I decided to try moving the jib sheets inside the stays hoping the boat would point better.  Race started, and we were moving, albeit slowly, on a starboard tack and looking like we would clear the starting line, until the wind shifted to push us under the start line bouy, tried to tack to starboard, stalled, and started a slow jibe to port and again, whatever I did didn't stop the jibe. Becky started up again. Ran downwind a little, turned back up toward the steadily receding start line, started another jibe, and could see the little island closing in (there are tree stumps a few feet underwater on the island) so I fired up the motor, came around, dropped sails, withdrew from race #2, cracked open an IPA as we motored slowly around the fleet back to the marina, and started pondering just what in the world I was trying to race for. 
   It's been a couple of days since my racing debacle, Becky has stopped sending me ads for Hunter 23.5's, Hunter 23's, Catalina 22s, and reminding me to talk to the Sea Scout guy about his Hierendale and I've developed a few things I plan to attend to before the next Frostbite race.  1. Put the Genoa on the boat. 2. Put the sheets back outside the stays routed all the way back like C.B. had them 3. Put some mast rake in and check the side stays with loos gauge 4. Use the scrubber I made to clean the bottom and double check that the keel is down (the jibes seemed like there was no keel at all) 5. Not that I think it's me, but enlist a club member with 40+ years of sailing, who is currently boatless, but rides with various people, and always improves their finishes in races.
   Any other constructive suggestions from the crowd? 

[Charles Brennan]

Ed, Wow!!I am impressed that you can get the boat moving at all, in less than 5 knots of wind, using only the jib!  < 3 knots, was usually my criterion for firing up the motor! 

We were behind everyone, again, but were keeping pace aft of a Hunter 23.5 for a few minutes after crossing the start line on a close reach with a little wind off the port side. 

Very impressed that you can keep pace with bigger boats like that!
The genoa and drifter/reacher were always my go to sails in that wind range; the genoa, if close tacking was required and the drifter/reacher, for broad reaches and down wind runs.

The Hunter started turning upwind a little so I tried to, without success.

Think about that for a minute.  I bet that Hunter was using a genoa, or at least, SOME headsail larger than a jib and you were trying to follow him with only a jib.
Under-gunned, much? 

Ended up paralleling the start line, again, and whenever I tried to turn up toward the wind the boat started the lazy jibe thing again regardless of where I had the tiller/mainsail/jib/bodies.

Been there, done that. 
The only thing that worked for me in winds that light (without a genoa) was to set the tiller straight, bring the end of the boom to the corner of the stern and ease the jib and then wait until getting some way on, before even TRYING to sheet in on the jib. And after THAT, only then, trying to tack to windward.
In your given conditions, the only two things you could have done to improve tacking ability was:
1) Remove the tack pennant.
The jib has a shackle on the tack, that normally ties to the eye thimble on the pennant. by unshackling it from the pennant and refastening the tack shackle down on the deck, you get more of a "deck sweeper" funneling air up and past the main sail at a slightly different angle, than when the tack pennant is being used.  Discovered that one weekend, when the genoa leathers were being replaced at Super Sailmakers.
2) Use in-board bulls eye fair leads. 
This is the ONLY time the jib sheets should be inboard of the side stays; when used in conjunction with the jib's tack down at the deck level. (Tack pennant removed.)  Again, there is some combination of sheeting angle and wind flow past the main that improves the boat speed and pointing ability, but only with both those two conditions being true. Use a bigger sail, or re-connect the tack pennant and the jib sheets need to be moved outboard of the side shrouds, once more.

I had tack pennants on both the jib and the storm jib, solely for visibility purposes, so I could see under them for surrounding boat traffic. The genoa and drifter/reacher have a high enough clew angle, that forward visibility is not a problem. 

Finally, the Windrose has always been a frustrating light air boat; it's when winds start piping up, that the boat really shines.  I had that storm jib made for the three or four times a year that I would stay home because of marginal conditions.  It got me more weekends per year, having that.  I always had my best CDCR performance in heavy weather years. All the other boats are getting laid over on their sides and I was still just chugging along.  I remember when a particularly bad thunderstorm blew across Biscayne Bay, one year.  You could hear spinnakers suddenly blowing out and sounding just like shotgun blasts.  The rain was so fierce, I could barely see ahead to the mast, much less the bow pulpit. Just kept going on my compass heading.  Noticed a few times when the compass reading was backwards and realized I had been rounded up 180º! 
Storm blew past and when I looked around to get my bearings, I realized the entire fleet was behind me!   
(Many boats had hove-to, until it was safer to proceed.)
Of course, in the calm that always follows a storm, it didn't take too long for the fleet to catch up and over-take me! 

You've been out on this boat less than a dozen times and you're trying to race it? 
Bought the boat in November and my first race wasn't until the following October.
Tell Becky: "It's a poor Workman, that blames his tools."  Sounds like your only mistake was not having the right sail for the right conditions, aboard.

Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[Ed]

Thanks Charles, I'll report again after Frostbite Race #2 the 17th.

[Chris Muthig]

Still rememeber sailing alongside Urchin, in my Siren 17 Telepyleia.  I would ghost ahead in lighter winds, but in chop he would plow through the waves while I stalled and accelerated, stalled and accelerated.  Slow and steady wins the race on both counts.  Subtle differences made all the difference, though.  Similar sail plans, 151 sq ft on the windrose, 139 sq ft on the siren.  Urchin has a 400 lb centerboard, mine was 130.  Mine was a decidedly lower profile boat than his, mine was built with a much bigger cockpit than his, and he had a much bigger and taller cabin, and quite a bit more freeboard.  He had a deeper and wider hull than mine, mine being more flat bottom.  Very different boats.  The only year I entered the CDCR, I didn't go because of the snotty weather, and I think that was the year he placed well because of the snotty weather.  He reefed when needed, I never reefed my boat once, even though I've sailed in some heavy winds.  I like the sport of it.  Urchin was more comfortable of a boat, and it was a great compromise of what people look for in a weekender type boat.  The siren was a good compromise of what people look for in a day sailer.

[rfrance0718]

With Handicap racing it is really difficult to judge your relative boat speed. (Particularly with the tiny jib) With one design racing you can judge your speed in any condition. If you are slow in light air, but up to speed with more wind, then you know that you have that element to correct. Handicaps are averages over a variety of conditions. You have to sail a lot in each condition to learn anything about how you are doing. After you do have lots of races under your belt,  you will start to see that you should do well in some winds, sea states, and directions, but not so great in others. So, you may find yourself battling that certain boat regularly, but winning in 10-15, and not so much in 5-8. Once this is established, you have more of a baseline, and you have a better chance of judging your performance.

At our club we do a handicap race for the second race after a fleet race. Many times there are 3 to 5 other Thistles. This makes performance judgements very clear. To win I have to beat the other Thistles scratch and beat the other boats on corrected time. Over the many years I have a really good idea about which boats are going to be tough to beat in specific conditions. A Thistle will beat Lidos and Daysailers, scratch, by a good bit,  in any condition,  but in really light air, those boats are much more competitive on corrected time. This is surprising since Thistles are really fast in light air, but somehow, those two boats are relatively faster when it gets really light. It takes a while to parse that out. Another interesting factor is that a Laser can get a really good start and can hold off the faster boats for a while, sometimes the whole weather leg. The bigger  boats will eventually get by, so then it's a matter of staying close for the rest of the race. Then, it really matters how long the course is. If it's relatively short, then the Lasers are likely to win on corrected time.

My point is, that it takes a long time to figure this out. You are on the right track by taking note of who you are competitive with, but it will take a while before you start to understand how conditions play into it.

[Charles Brennan]

Ed, A further observation:
I rarely used the jib, in less than 10-15 mph.
The genoa was my go-to sail for most sailing conditions. It rarely came down, until I started getting intermittent gusts to 20 mph. Trying to round up, was usually my first clue!   
Then I used the jib. 
The genoa was good for going to weather, but off the wind, the drifter/reacher was better, and dead downwind with a whisker pole, was my favored choice for using the drifter/reacher in very light winds, like you experienced on Saturday.
The one thing the drifter/reacher would NOT do, is tack.  With the sharply swept back fore-foot on the hull, that big head sail would just force the nose around, no matter what I did with the tiller.  The only way to get steerage back, was to slack the jib sheets and let it flap.
Your new rudder may be a different story; it might be worth playing around with it, to see.

Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[rfrance0718]

Bye the way. My first boat was an old fj. I was happy just daysailing for a year, but then started into racing. My first event was a training seminar, run by Greg Fisher. I had known Greg for a long time, but I hadn't sailed much at all up to that point. We started with some practice starts, in light air,  and while the rest of the boats headed up wind, I couldn't make it across the line. It was very embarrassing, particularly in front of Greg, who figured that I had some idea what I was doing. (Greg Fisher is a multi class national champion prolific sailmaker, and renowned coach) I switched to Thistles 2 years later, and it was probably another 10 years before I actually started winning some races and taking home some hardware. I've seen many, many people jump into racing, expect to be good right away, and walk away in just a season or two. I've always thought that this was such a shame. Those early years are my fondest memories.

[Travis Chapman]

I've never raced Panda Paws, but I'm empathetic and reliving a traumatic 10 minutes back in 2022 of turning perfect circles at Codorus due to perpetual jibes in light air. Similar, I couldn't get enough way going to gain the momentum to pull through a tack, and we just kept spinning the other way. Similar approach as Charles described, I eventually had to let her run straight and untouched for longer than desired (i.e., toward shoal water) and managed to catch a turn. I blamed the older wooden rudder at the time: aspect ratio, warped, rough, whatever I could cling to, but the reality was just as much that I wasn't setup for the conditions like I should have been. The drifter was a better choice that day most of the time. But totally agree: once there was a healthy wind, she's got a bone in her teeth for sure.

Thanks for sharing your experience and all the insights! Glad I can learn through others!!

[Doug SC]

Greg Fisher is a multi class national champion prolific sailmaker, and renowned coach

We have had several coaching sessions with Greg at our club. We also have a new set of his sails on Bill's Flying Scot "Old School" and he is a retired teacher.