Outboard selection

[Riggerdood]

One thing I can say about the Honda is it is very easy to start, usually on the first or second pull. Something to be aware of, in my experience, is the engine is very sensitive to overfilling the oil, even a little bit. The engine will cut out a low idle speed. Remove a few milliliters and then she runs great. Got that tip from Dave Edwards who has not posted for a very long time. I use a 250mL beaker to measure out the oil. 

Good point Brian, and the other thing is that the oil level "sighting window" can be a bit difficult to read. The outboard needs to be perfectly vertical and level to get a good reading.

[johnandcandace]

A 2.3 Honda or 2.5 Yamaha will work just fine.
We ran a 2.3 on our Montgomery 15 and hardly ever reved it past idle.
Now we have a 2.5 on our Precision 18, same thing.
Both are very lightweight, don't need an external gas tank, and have more than adequate power.
What's hard to get used to is no reverse lever.
For reverse, you spin the engine 180, flip the tiller and steer while also holding the rudder from flopping.
That can be a clumsy affair when docking, especially if you have stern rail or seat interference.

[Brian N.]

Just remember to throttle down all the way BEFORE you spin the motor around (don't ask how I know  )

[Captain Kidd]

Well, I did it: bought that brand new, never touched the water Honda 2.3 long shaft. An older fellow, boat builder, 30 year liveaboard bought it and discovered it was too long for the boat he was putting it on. Didn't want to bother with the headache of reshipping so I got it for a "used price" and tax free! Found it on Market Place.

Thanks for all the advice and tips! I'll let you know how it works out.

[Brian N.]

Hopefully the Honda will meet your needs, I've been very satisfied for many years. I use mine just to get to and from Long Island Sound, 10 minutes each way, so it gets very little use. I find that changing the oil once a year is enough (it is fairly clean), the lower unit oil every other year along with the spark plug. Winter storage is easy, just fill the tank with gas treated with stabilizer and that's it. I store it in the shed. I do start the engine once or twice during the winter on a mild day (remember its air cooled). Let it run 30 seconds at "idle" then turn the throttle down to starve off the gas until it stops. The new engine's clutch may take a few outings to break in. The engine is a bit loud, but not to the point of a large outboard. 

For the P165 rarely do I go above 3/4 throttle, even in wind, waves, current or fully loaded. A full tank will last 40 minutes or so, depending upon speed. Any other questions, please ask. Enjoy your sailing.

[Bruce Mason]

That's what my 2010 owner's manual says. IMO, they are being cautious for liability purposes. Here's an excerpt from a post I made on the Picnic Cat Group forum on 8/4/14, in response to the concern of other Honda owners about the practice. Typically, I only ran the motor dry to warm it up enough to be able to throttle down and disengage the centrifugal clutch. If I wanted to run it longer, I would use a tank filled with water.


"I certainly agree, Andre. If it's hot, shut her down.

While enjoying a nice Belgian-style ale and tending the chicken thighs in the smoker last night, I had a few minutes to do a test. The intent was to advance the discussion with some quantified results, as well as confirm that I wasn't just blowing smoke! The Honda was on a stand, the closest water was a puddle in the driveway from the day's showers. The ambient air temp was about 70º, and all exterior surfaces of the vertical casing were at ambient temp. All temps are in ºF.

The motor hadn't been run for days, so I throttled up and it started after a couple of pulls. Within a few seconds I was able to close the choke and well within 10 seconds I was able to throttle back to idle so the prop would stop. Then it was just stand back and monitor the temperature with an IR thermometer, while enjoying my ale. At three minutes I closed the gas line to run the carb dry, my usual shut down procedure. At eight minutes the engine ran out of gas and I closed the gas cap vent.

Temperatures in three areas were of interest. The lower unit (lower end?) steadied out at about 76º. The warmest spot on the vertical casing that might ever be expected to see water in normal operation was right above the higher cavitation plate (I have a long shaft); that reached about 92º. The hottest spot was, not surprisingly, on the plastic guard right below the case swivel, where Honda has the warning label about hot surfaces. Here the temp reached 104º. All maximum temperatures where reached about 6 minutes into the test.

At no point did I feel there was any risk of damage, but if Honda asks: "No sir, I would never do such a thing."

Anon

[Captain Kidd]

Thanks, Bruce for the reply. I was trying to edit my post and reduce the size of the pics and deleted it. Here it is again for other input.

Original Post:

My new motor!

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Here's a question. The owner's manual says to not run it unless in water. Not sure I get this.? One reason I bought this one was so that I could run it regularly without having to put it in water.

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Does this mean I can't run in in air for a few minutes on a regular basis to keep the fuel in the carb fresh?

On a similar note: there is a drain plug to empty the carb. It says to drain the carb if the motor will be run
infrequently. Maybe this is the solution to keeping the carb clean and gas fresh.

[Brian N.]

My engine is 2006 and the owners manual does not have that picture or warning. Perhaps it was added when they changed it to the 2.3 HP from the 2.0 (actually same exact engine). I've never let it run out of water for any extended time however, one or two minutes at most. Also, I only drain the gas after the winter, before I start it up for the season, and I use a small hand pump and hose. Between uses, letting the engine starve for gas and stop seems to work (so far for 15 years). I think using only treated gas is a big plus to not having any problems.

[Dave Scobie]

I think there are two reasons the lawyers added the 'don't run out of water' comment -

• Worry about someone burning themselves in a hot lower shaft (aka warmed by exhaust)
• Worry that someone will get themselves hit by a spinning prop.

A legitimate mechanical worry is over-revving the motor as there is no resistance against the prop.

[MrDave]

I am new here but my thought is that there are "Air cooled motors" and "Water cooled motors". I would think Honda is indicating the their motor needs water to run properly. I like the drain plug on the carburetor it keeps your bilge cleaner than spilling gas in it. I also used to run my motor gas dry before putting it away (pre drain days) never had a motor problem. The reason that people do this is because of the ethanol gas issue and clogged ports etc. I have been using Seafoam in all my motors on boats, yard stuff lawn mowers etc. It is amazing how much better everything works. My opinion for your solution is : Use Seafoam drain the carb and put the motor away. If you leave it on the transom do nothing. Storing for the winter I would do more prep.

[Brian N.]

Welcome Dave to the Precision Forum  . I have been using gas stabilizer in all my small engines for many years and very satisfied. During the winter, on a mild day, I'll start my outboard (Honda 2HP) and this routine has kept it running well for many years.

[talbot]

When I asked a similar question on another forum years ago, someone told me the big issue is current. If you are sailing in a river or tide water--or both--you need a motor powerful enough to move you against typical currents. If the main concern is getting home on a windless lake, you can get away with a small motor. Or even a pair of oars.

[Straander]

Since this is the most active part of the TSBB, I thought I'd pose my question here. I don't have a Precision (shame on me - ha!), but I figured your opinions and experience would still be valuable.

I sail a Hunter 18.5. If you're not familiar, she has a wing keel and goes 1650 lbs dry. I need a new outboard. Money is an issue. I'm on the verge of selling the boat (for several reasons), but if I can get a motor for a reasonable price, I'll keep her. She had a Yamaha 4hp. That motor got crushed (don't ask me how). Looks like most 4hp motors are going for $1400-1800. A Tohatsu goes for $12 and change from the manufacturer but shipping adds about $250. I stopped at Bass Pro and I can get a Mercury 4hp for just under $1600 taxes incl.

I have found a lightly used 2017 Yamaha 4hp for $1000. I'm guessing it's been sitting and is likely gooped up.

I'm considering a Honda 2.3. Dave Scobie outfitted his Sage 17 with them. They're about 300 lbs lighter than the Hunter. The 2.3 costs about a grand. Air-cooled (I like that). No reverse but I guess I could live with that. I sail almost exclusively on inland lakes in light air.

Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

How's the Hunter 18.5 treating you? I've seen them for sale here locally several times and honestly could easily have ended up with one instead of the P165 if I just had a higher towing capacity car like an Outback.
I'd definitely feel better being out on the ocean in the Hunter then the Precision which has mostly kept me limited to local lakes.

[Captain Kidd]

How's the Hunter 18.5 treating you? I've seen them for sale here locally several times and honestly could easily have ended up with one instead of the P165 if I just had a higher towing capacity car like an Outback.
I'd definitely feel better being out on the ocean in the Hunter then the Precision which has mostly kept me limited to local lakes.

A few thoughts come to mind.

First - I like my 18.5. I can step the mast with no mechanical advantage. She is relatively easy to launch and retrieve. It is comfortable for two sleeping aboard. As far as sailing characteristics, I have limited experience to compare her to. I have only sailed 3 different pocket cruisers all of which I owned. My favorite of the three is the Macgregor 26S, the third being a Kells 23 fixed shallow draft keel.

Second - as far as going to the ocean, how about the guy who sailed his Montgomery 15 to Hawaii? http://msog.org/yarns/hawaii15.cfm. Basically the same class boat as the 165. Most boats will outperform their captain!

Third - If I were to do a lot of coastal sailing, I believe I would want a boat with positive flotation. the 18.5 doesn't have it. I guess it could be added. The Mac did. A very comforting thought! BTW the Mac weighed no more than the 18.5 due to her water ballast, so towing was about the same. I tow my boats with a '08 Kia Sorento.

I like the 18.5 and plan to keep it now that I have a new motor. I'm pushing 70 years of age, so we'll have to see how I hold up physically. Goes for my wife too. Seems "arthur" is trying to take up residence in both of us. I like including her and she'll get on the Hunter before getting on my 16' wooden dinghy.

I'm looking forward to the fall sailing season!