P165 high wind headsail

[Straander]

Hello everyone. I wanted to get an opinion on a new headsail design.
When I replaced my P165 stock jib last year, I extended the foot as far as I was able to and still maintain compatibility with the jib car tracks and clearance around the spreaders. That gave me a jib about 9% larger then the stock one which has helped a lot in the light air here in lake washington.

Now I'd like to get a second jib optimized for the few high wind days I have to go out in. I dont have much experience with multiple headsail sizes, so I wanted to get some opinions based on how other boats have their heavy weather jibs cut.

Option A: reduce the Luff length so the leech angles forward to a point partway down the forestay.
Option B: Reduce leech length so the foot gains a large clearance over the deck where the clew ends up.
Option C: reduce foot length so the sail has a gap between the leech and the mast.

My first inclination is for option B because that should allow me to use the jib cars in their normal position near the aft. But I'd like to hear other thoughts. I plan to have this jib cut so it is about 66% the area of the stock jib.

[ChrisB]

Another option you might want to explore.  Before I had my 165, I had an O'Day Daysailor.  For that boat I purchased a well used Club 420 jib to use as a high wind sail when I had two reefs in the DS.  I kept that sail and now use it on the P-165 on windy days.  The Club 420 uses a roller furler and wire luff so I had to add piston hanks to the sail.  Also had to add a pennant to the tack of the sail to raise it up a bit (to optimize the sheeting angle with the existing jib blocks).  The sail was literally a $40 investment from Masthead Enterprises in St. Petersburg, Fl.  It has worked well for me.

-Chris

[tjspiel]

Hello everyone. I wanted to get an opinion on a new headsail design.
When I replaced my P165 stock jib last year, I extended the foot as far as I was able to and still maintain compatibility with the jib car tracks and clearance around the spreaders. That gave me a jib about 9% larger then the stock one which has helped a lot in the light air here in lake washington.

Now I'd like to get a second jib optimized for the few high wind days I have to go out in. I dont have much experience with multiple headsail sizes, so I wanted to get some opinions based on how other boats have their heavy weather jibs cut.

Option A: reduce the Luff length so the leech angles forward to a point partway down the forestay.
Option B: Reduce leech length so the foot gains a large clearance over the deck where the clew ends up.
Option C: reduce foot length so the sail has a gap between the leech and the mast.

My first inclination is for option B because that should allow me to use the jib cars in their normal position near the aft. But I'd like to hear other thoughts. I plan to have this jib cut so it is about 66% the area of the stock jib.

Not an expert on sail design at all but I know there are standard jib numbers that represent particular characteristics. I think they go from 1 to 5 with 1 being the largest and 5 being the smallest. This site talks about that a little bit but there's probably better information elsewhere.

https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/2017/06/upwind-sails-guide

Sounds like you're looking for a #4 jib and in your boat's case that might be a combination of A and B. A shorter luff and a higher clew (and tack). The idea is that the foot should be higher off the deck so that the sail is not impacted by waves washing over the foredeck. Probably more of an issue in offshore boats.

[Straander]

Thank you. A combination of A and B is what I went with. The clew is raised up above the deck higher then normal but the Tack is in the normal spot. Figured it cant be moved with how it attaches on on the 165.

Hello everyone. I wanted to get an opinion on a new headsail design.
When I replaced my P165 stock jib last year, I extended the foot as far as I was able to and still maintain compatibility with the jib car tracks and clearance around the spreaders. That gave me a jib about 9% larger then the stock one which has helped a lot in the light air here in lake washington.

Now I'd like to get a second jib optimized for the few high wind days I have to go out in. I dont have much experience with multiple headsail sizes, so I wanted to get some opinions based on how other boats have their heavy weather jibs cut.

Option A: reduce the Luff length so the leech angles forward to a point partway down the forestay.
Option B: Reduce leech length so the foot gains a large clearance over the deck where the clew ends up.
Option C: reduce foot length so the sail has a gap between the leech and the mast.

My first inclination is for option B because that should allow me to use the jib cars in their normal position near the aft. But I'd like to hear other thoughts. I plan to have this jib cut so it is about 66% the area of the stock jib.

Not an expert on sail design at all but I know there are standard jib numbers that represent particular characteristics. I think they go from 1 to 5 with 1 being the largest and 5 being the smallest. This site talks about that a little bit but there's probably better information elsewhere.

https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/2017/06/upwind-sails-guide

Sounds like you're looking for a #4 jib and in your boat's case that might be a combination of A and B. A shorter luff and a higher clew (and tack). The idea is that the foot should be higher off the deck so that the sail is not impacted by waves washing over the foredeck. Probably more of an issue in offshore boats.

[talbot]

Are you sewing your own sail?
I ask because a sailmaker would have gone over this in excruciating detail, including sheeting angles, furler placement, tack height in relation to deck and rail, etc. But I'm sure you'll enjoy your heavy weather canvas.

For other northwest sailors following this thread, I have had a couple of sails made for my P21 by Precision Sail Loft in Sidney, BC. They are intermediate in price, but they are familiar with Precisions (or maybe just the 21), and they are local to the Gulf Islands and San Juans.

Straander: Do you ever get out through the locks to the Sound? I'm in Oregon, but I have family in Everett and try to get up to the sound in the fall. Maybe we could meet for a sail some time. Is there anyone else on this forum in the NW? I thought we had someone in Port Townsend.

[Straander]

Hello Talbot. Greetings to another (sort of) local.

Bill at precision is going to have Rolly Tasker make the custom jib for me. He makes big orders from them several times a year to stock up on replacement parts for precision boats and he didnt mind adding a modified one in to the order last year. Hoping it goes as smooth this time. The jib he got me costed about 1/3 of the price I got quoted from a local sail loft.

Since I have the precise measurements for the stock jib, I've been able to modify it (using a CAD program overlaid over the top of the P165's profile view) so that it will still fit within the boat's constraints. Not sure what else a professional sailmaker would do.

I have never gone through the locks because there is a boat ramp very close to either side of them. Going through them both ways would take up the majority of time I have on any particular day sail trip xD So instead I just launch on whichever side I want to sail on.

One other person posted on my washington sailers thread, but I don't think they currently have a boat.

[talbot]

Maybe we can connect some time if I tow the 21 up north.

[Straander]

Very possible! I'm not too keen on taking my boat down to the south sound area for a short day trip, but maybe we could work something out.

[talbot]

Sure. We have no schedule for this fall yet, but I'll keep you in mind when/if we get our act together.