Downhaul, just doesn't work well

[johnandcandace]

Any advice on how to make a downhaul work good??
We have a Rolley Tasker 100 and a storm jib on our P18. For years we've read from people using downhauls. After buying the 3/16" rope, a turning block for the base of the bowrail, a cam cleat back at the cockpit, I was out $50+. I attach the downhaul line to the halyard shackle with sister clips. Last year I tried a straight pull and also tried threading (and weaving) the line thru the sail clips. Sail clips are plastic, screw on, plunger style, for the 100, and ss hooks for the storm jib. Last summer I could not get the downhaul to work well, on either sail, so we just stopped using it. The sail clips typically bind up on the forestay; sail stacks in a jumbled mess about 2' above deck level. Last summer we tried and gave up on the downhaul system. I typically take the sail down, fold it and wrap the sheets, while kneeling on the bow/deck, and then go back to drop the main, etc. Our mountain lake typically has 20 - 30 mph wind with pretty big waves; my wife helms. In those conditions I'd rather not walk / work on the bow deck to drop and fold the jib. But with the sail mess the downhaul creates, I'm back on the bow anyway; untangling, and trying to flatten the sail mess. Went overboard, backwards, last week, in rough, cold water with no other boats anywhere. I was able to grab the boat, and climb back in, but don't want to repeat that. So today we tried the downhaul again, but it just doesn't work. Any advice will be appreciated.

[tjspiel]

Instead of attaching to the halyard shackle, try attaching to the top most hank. I had to replace the top hank with a larger one to accomplish this. Or you could try running the downhaul through the top hank and then to the halyard. As you discovered, weaving it through all the hanks doesn't work well.

The original jib on my boat had brass hanks which I think helped.

Last year I replaced the jib with one from a Flying Scott that was practically new. The problem is that it used snaps and webbing rather than hanks. It was a disaster with a downhaul. Somebody here or somewhere else suggested coating the webbing with SailKote, - and oh what a difference. It still wasn't great but at least it was usable.

What I will say is that I was never entirely happy with how the downhaul worked even with the stock jib. The jib came down but there was always more resistance than I thought there should be. I wish I would have tried SailKote on the brass hanks. Maybe then it would have worked as smooth as I thought it could and should.

Late last year I made a 5 hour drive to pick up a used furler for $100. Well worth it but I got lucky. The actual cost was a $100 to $150 more since I had to convert the jib but still much, much less than what a new one costs. Might be the best upgrade I've made to the boat although the solar panel is right up there.

Good luck !

[Riggerdood]

Yup, agree with Tom:

1) Don't attach the DH to the halyard shackle, attach it to the first or second hank below the head of the sail. Don't run it through the rest of the hanks.

2) Make sure there's nothing at the bottom end that the lowest hank can catch on. This might involve a piece of PVC tubing to cover the turnbuckle/lever/whatever else is there, and will make sure the sail can be raised again easily. Also, when raising or lowering, keep a little tension on the halyard, to avoid the DH from slackening and whipping around the forestay.

Also, you mention a turning block for the base of the bowrail. The turning block really needs to be attached to the stemhead to function properly.

Hope this helps.

[Tom G P 21]

Agree with others, attach it to the second hank below the head of the sail.

[Dave Scobie]

Yes I'll concur that the line needs to be attached to the second from the top hank.  Attached to the head or the shackle is a guarantee to jam.

Thread the line only past the next three Hanks, NOT all hanks.  If all hanks are threaded the line and hanks will jam.

Turning block on deck a little outboard and aft the the bow plate/chainplate.

As the sail comes down pull the sheets tight so the sail's foot is flat and stays on deck.

[Quantico Frank]

To add to what others have said, I don't actually thread my downhaul through the hanks, but through small SS rings that I have attached to a couple of the piston hanks toward the top of the sail. This was a lot easier for me than trying to run the line through the hank along with the forestay. After spending a lot of time with it and getting a lot of advice from the forum, along with the PVC pipe Tim mentioned; this setup is working extremely well and reliably for me.

[johnandcandace]

To Dave Scobie,
There's probably a more appropriate way to tell you, but this is the only way I know.
Today saw a Montgomery 15 for sale on craigslist, near Vancouver, WA. A 2014, like new.
It's a Bob Egg edition, so something(s) may be goofed up!! But it's still worth a mention.
john and candace

[johnandcandace]

Thank you five, for the advice. We will work on those suggestions and let you all know the results.

[Straander]

Hello John.

A bit ago I made a little walkthrough video for my P165 and show off the how I set up my downhaul near the start. Go ahead and check out the link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49UKFHd81iA

Quick description:
-Set up a block on the forward hole on my stem fitting. Used a 90° twist shackle so that the block is aligned fore and aft rather then sideways. Its important this block is very close to the forestay to prevent binding.
-the downhaul line has a snap-shackle on the end. I clip it on to the forestay just above the top hank. I do not thread it between any hanks. My jibs all use piston hanks. (when I first set this up with the stock jib using twist-hanks, several would come off every time I used it).
-The downhaul line is ran back to a vee-cleat without fairlead in the cockpit.

My system works very reliably. hope this helps you.

[johnandcandace]

Thanks for the video. The small shackle at top end of downhaul is something we will try.
Not sure if it will be this year. Yesterday we had to pull out P198 out of Rimrock Reservoir, where we moor. The US Bureau of Reclamation is drawing it down so far and fast, we had to pull out after just 3 weeks of sailing. Our $600 summer moorage fee is also gone with the water. It really made us mad that Reclamation didn't tell anyone at the Three Rimrock marinas, of their drawdown plan. Their reasoning: The reservoir is authorized for irrigation; recreation is not an authorized function. They didn't even tell the US Forest Service, a sister agency, who leases the 3 Rimrock marinas/campgrounds to private venders, under contract with the Forest Service. So there are a lot of unhappy boaters and campers. Probably every slip in Seattle is already booked for the summer. Our boat is sitting in the garage. Cuss cuss!

[tjspiel]

Thanks for the video. The small shackle at top end of downhaul is something we will try.
Not sure if it will be this year. Yesterday we had to pull out P198 out of Rimrock Reservoir, where we moor. The US Bureau of Reclamation is drawing it down so far and fast, we had to pull out after just 3 weeks of sailing. Our $600 summer moorage fee is also gone with the water. It really made us mad that Reclamation didn't tell anyone at the Three Rimrock marinas, of their drawdown plan. Their reasoning: The reservoir is authorized for irrigation; recreation is not an authorized function. They didn't even tell the US Forest Service, a sister agency, who leases the 3 Rimrock marinas/campgrounds to private venders, under contract with the Forest Service. So there are a lot of unhappy boaters and campers. Probably every slip in Seattle is already booked for the summer. Our boat is sitting in the garage. Cuss cuss!

That's terrible! You'd think they'd refund a good chunk of that mooring fee.

It's been as dry as a bone here and water levels have already gone down significantly. My trailer went over the edge of the concrete apron today while retrieving my boat for cleaning. Luckily it's not much of a drop (unlike last year).

[Straander]

I picked one just like this one's style. Not sure if the size is the same without seeing it in person.
I liked the rounded, highly polished metal so it wouldnt abrade the forestay.

West marine snap hook.

Thanks for the video. The small shackle at top end of downhaul is something we will try.
Not sure if it will be this year. Yesterday we had to pull out P198 out of Rimrock Reservoir, where we moor. The US Bureau of Reclamation is drawing it down so far and fast, we had to pull out after just 3 weeks of sailing. Our $600 summer moorage fee is also gone with the water. It really made us mad that Reclamation didn't tell anyone at the Three Rimrock marinas, of their drawdown plan. Their reasoning: The reservoir is authorized for irrigation; recreation is not an authorized function. They didn't even tell the US Forest Service, a sister agency, who leases the 3 Rimrock marinas/campgrounds to private venders, under contract with the Forest Service. So there are a lot of unhappy boaters and campers. Probably every slip in Seattle is already booked for the summer. Our boat is sitting in the garage. Cuss cuss!

[Straander]

It's amazing how fast those central reservoirs drop when it gets to be each one's turn. My first experience with this was when I took my precision boat-camping on lake cle-elum. We tied it to a stump on the shoreline and the stern to an anchor with the bow just touching the shore. Woke up in the middle of the night with the boat heeled way over because the water level had dropped by several feet in just a couple hours. Had to re-position the boat several feet offshore to make it through the rest of the night.
If we had slept ashore in tents, I shudder to think what I would have done if I'd woken up to my boat stranded on dry land and unable to by dragged back to the water.

"Probably every slip in Seattle is already booked for the summer"
Does seattle even have seasonal slips at all? I was under the impression that every slip in a Marina here had a 1 year or longer waitlist for it, so its not actually possible to pick what season your boat gets in? Never owned a boat anywhere else so I really don't know what's normal.

Thanks for the video. The small shackle at top end of downhaul is something we will try.
Not sure if it will be this year. Yesterday we had to pull out P198 out of Rimrock Reservoir, where we moor. The US Bureau of Reclamation is drawing it down so far and fast, we had to pull out after just 3 weeks of sailing. Our $600 summer moorage fee is also gone with the water. It really made us mad that Reclamation didn't tell anyone at the Three Rimrock marinas, of their drawdown plan. Their reasoning: The reservoir is authorized for irrigation; recreation is not an authorized function. They didn't even tell the US Forest Service, a sister agency, who leases the 3 Rimrock marinas/campgrounds to private venders, under contract with the Forest Service. So there are a lot of unhappy boaters and campers. Probably every slip in Seattle is already booked for the summer. Our boat is sitting in the garage. Cuss cuss!

[Quantico Frank]

Our boat is sitting in the garage. Cuss cuss!

MONUMENTAL PITA! Feel for you! Any chance to head to a different body of water for a sail?

[johnandcandace]

Looked at that ss clip. I like it. Thanks.
WA state has about 1/4 million boats; most of them in Seattle. Some marinas have years long waiting lists. We once looked for moorage at Des Moines Marina, near Tacoma; it had a 60+ year wait. We were about 40 years old at that time. You can sometimes sublease a slip from recreational boat owners and fishermen who move north for the summer. A couple months ago a friend arranged such a sublease for July and Aug, at Fishermans Terminal marina. It's probably too late to try that this summer, but We are looking. Part of the problem is at our age, sleeping in our P18, our truck box, a backpacking tent or a snow cave, just doesn't have the appeal it used to.
Our very nice resort owner offered part of our moorage back, but they are barely breaking even, in their second year of ownership. The reservoir drawdown already has their summer reservations cancelling. The three marinas at Rimrock have had 5 owners in the past two seasons. Resorts sold for $200,000 to $850,000. The previous set of owners realized it's not a dream business, lost enough money then sold to the current owners. I guess it's kind of like boats: those holes in the water you pour money into. How we envy you north central and east coast sailers that have so many places to boat.