Question about efficiently stepping the mast and rig tension

[tjspiel]

I know Strander, Frank, and maybe Ron? use those cool levers on their 165s to apply tension to the rig after they've stepped their masts.

Would that work on P-18 side stays with the lowers and the back stay still applying tension to the forestay? Or would I need to find a way to loosen those too?

I, like many of you, use the jib halyard to help me step the mast. I loosen the turnbuckle on the forestay to make it easy to attach and I have tape on the threads that mark where I need to turn the turnbuckle to for good tension.

I used velcro wrap pins instead of cotter pins on the forestay to make the process of tightening and loosening the turnbuckle easy. But they won't fit under the furler drum so now I'm wondering what to do.

What do people without the levers do? Do you just crank on the jib halyard until you can attach the forestay which is already adjusted properly? Not sure I could do that. No winch and just a basic cleat holding the jib halyard.

There's not a ton of tension on the lowers so if the uppers and backstay were loose, would that work? Guess I kind of asked that already.

Thanks !

[Quantico Frank]

We in the P165s have such a simple rig compared to yours, I wouldn't even hazard a guess, Tom. Not the first time I've been stumped, and it won't be the last! You know, you might call Bill Porter?

[Riggerdood]

Tom, I have a lever on the backstay, so with that open and forward tension on the main halyard (no jib halyard due to built-in furler halyard), I can pin the furler and release the halyard tension. Then closing the lever tightens everything up. Are you keeping the jib halyard on the mast just for raising/lowering? I'm considering adding a dedicated line for that, so I don't have to use the main halyard.

[tjspiel]

Tom, I have a lever on the backstay, so with that open and forward tension on the main halyard (no jib halyard due to built-in furler halyard), I can pin the furler and release the halyard tension. Then closing the lever tightens everything up. Are you keeping the jib halyard on the mast just for raising/lowering? I'm considering adding a dedicated line for that, so I don't have to use the main halyard.

The old jib halyard won't work because the block would interfere with the extrusion unless I move it down. So for now I've been using the main halyard like you.

Yours is a masthead rig, right?

On the P-18 the back stay is mostly for putting a bend in the mast (might be wrong about that). It goes all the way to the top while the forestay terminates at the same height as the side stays.

And maybe that makes no difference. I'm sure a loose back stay would help. Just don't know if it would be enough with the side stays still pulling back against the forestay.

[Riggerdood]

Ah, that's right, I had forgotten about the interference issue. Yes, the RS22 is a masthead rig, and the force the backstay exerts on the mast would have a slightly different effect than on the fractional rig. I'd say try it once with the backstay turnbuckle open all the way, and see if it's any easier. Then again, if you're installing an adjuster, you'd just loosen that.

[Straander]

Looking at precision's website, it looks like the P18 has 6 point standing rigging compared to the P165's 3 point standing rigging. Assuming the backstay tension is adjustable (That's standard for backstay's right?) I'd guess you'd still need to apply levers to the back 2 of the 4 shrouds? Then loosen one of those and the backstay everytime you raise your mast. I'm working off a lot of guesswork here, I'm assuming two of the shrouds are fore of the mast and two are aft.

I recently watched this video of a p18 owners setting up his boat and he seems to have the process down pretty efficiently. Maybe something there will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtmrlDKUSo

I know Strander, Frank, and maybe Ron? use those cool levers on their 165s to apply tension to the rig after they've stepped their masts.

Would that work on P-18 side stays with the lowers and the back stay still applying tension to the forestay? Or would I need to find a way to loosen those too?

I, like many of you, use the jib halyard to help me step the mast. I loosen the turnbuckle on the forestay to make it easy to attach and I have tape on the threads that mark where I need to turn the turnbuckle to for good tension.

I used velcro wrap pins instead of cotter pins on the forestay to make the process of tightening and loosening the turnbuckle easy. But they won't fit under the furler drum so now I'm wondering what to do.

What do people without the levers do? Do you just crank on the jib halyard until you can attach the forestay which is already adjusted properly? Not sure I could do that. No winch and just a basic cleat holding the jib halyard.

There's not a ton of tension on the lowers so if the uppers and backstay were loose, would that work? Guess I kind of asked that already.

Thanks !

[tjspiel]

Looking at precision's website, it looks like the P18 has 6 point standing rigging compared to the P165's 3 point standing rigging. Assuming the backstay tension is adjustable (That's standard for backstay's right?) I'd guess you'd still need to apply levers to the back 2 of the 4 shrouds? Then loosen one of those and the backstay everytime you raise your mast. I'm working off a lot of guesswork here, I'm assuming two of the shrouds are fore of the mast and two are aft.

I recently watched this video of a p18 owners setting up his boat and he seems to have the process down pretty efficiently. Maybe something there will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtmrlDKUSo

I'll take a look at the video.

Unfortunately, while the stock backstay is adjustable, it can't be adjusted with the mast up. You change the length of the backstay by choosing different holes for the swage eye to be pinned to.

I've seen several mods for making the backstay adjustable while sailing and that's definitely on the table but probably not until after this season.

All four of the side stays connect to the same chain plate, so they are all aft of the mast. The difference is that the uppers terminate on the mast at the same height of the forestay while the lowers terminate below the spreaders.

The mast would stand without the backstay I'm sure. I don't know how critical it is to keeping the mast upright but I do know that it's used to put some bend in the mast.

[tjspiel]

I can't really see in the video that he's doing anything in particular to tension the rig up though I did notice he has a lot of purchase on his adjustable back stay and it's possible he's cranking down on that to get the right tension.

Part of what I wonder is if a lot of people just don't tension their rig up as much as I do. There's been some discussion about how tight it really needs to be. Tom Scott's recommendations are pretty high.

[Shesaidno]

I'm like Frank with my P165, plus my roller furler is a wire through the luff of the jib, not like a CDI. Consequently, most of my tension still comes via that furler wire. I do like the levers and I also bought my own Loos gauge, which I find very helpful. What I find too is that my tension goes down slightly while sitting in mast up dry storage and the only way I would know that is with the gauge. 

[Straander]

Ahh that's a bit more difficult then I was envisioning. I can't even envision how one gets the shrouds and backstay all to a similar tension in a setup like that, where you can only make rough adjustments rather then continuous adjustments.
To use the levers, I think you'd need to install them on all 4 shrouds and the backstay, not really worth the effort and cost.

Looking at precision's website, it looks like the P18 has 6 point standing rigging compared to the P165's 3 point standing rigging. Assuming the backstay tension is adjustable (That's standard for backstay's right?) I'd guess you'd still need to apply levers to the back 2 of the 4 shrouds? Then loosen one of those and the backstay everytime you raise your mast. I'm working off a lot of guesswork here, I'm assuming two of the shrouds are fore of the mast and two are aft.

I recently watched this video of a p18 owners setting up his boat and he seems to have the process down pretty efficiently. Maybe something there will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZtmrlDKUSo

I'll take a look at the video.

Unfortunately, while the stock backstay is adjustable, it can't be adjusted with the mast up. You change the length of the backstay by choosing different holes for the swage eye to be pinned to.

I've seen several mods for making the backstay adjustable while sailing and that's definitely on the table but probably not until after this season.

All four of the side stays connect to the same chain plate, so they are all aft of the mast. The difference is that the uppers terminate on the mast at the same height of the forestay while the lowers terminate below the spreaders.

The mast would stand without the backstay I'm sure. I don't know how critical it is to keeping the mast upright but I do know that it's used to put some bend in the mast.

[tjspiel]

They all have turnbuckles except the backstay. So fine adjustments are possible, just not convenient.