lessons learned from an awful boat day.

[Frank B.]

First I want to reiterate that I hate all things related to small outboard motors.  That means not just the motor itself but gas tanks, fuel lines, and motor mounting brackets. Yesterday each of them attacked me as they are want to do.

So I go up to the marina to finally get around to that spring cleanup and maintenance, with all my stuff to do that.  Figured I'd start (or at least try) the motor first let it run for a while while I'm doing other things.  It has been about three months since I last let it run. As expected it would not start immediately so wore myself out pulling on the starter cord.  Finally, after about thirty pulls it started up, so I went to push the choke in, but it was stuck so I pushed harder. That harder push was all that was needed to break off the top of the motor mounting plate, so there goes the motor into the drink.

First lesson learned.  I have a very heavy wire rope cable with a very heavy lock that was used originally to prevent theft of the motor.  I thought about taking it off, it was often in the way and the threat of theft was minimal. Very glad I didn't what that was really for was to prevent complete submersion of the motor.

Second lesson learned.  Those polymer mounting plate show no sign of breaking off until it happens.  No cracks of any kind, so I guess, time (21 years) UV, temp changes and hours of motor vibration finally caused it to go.

So I go get the Marina owner and ask if he can give me a hand getting it out.  I couldn't lift it up high enough to unlock the cable without losing the motor in about seven feet of water.  He did and we got it out.  His advice, throw it in the truck drive it home, put it on the stand, pull the plug, crank a few times to make sure no water got in, then start it and let it run for a while dry everything out.  Great advice except it wouldn't start.  No sign of water in the cylinder, oil tank, and the carb air intake was above the water level which was only a couple of inches on the rear of the motor which laid over longitudinally because of the cable that was holding it.

Additionally, I found out my brand new and quite expensive fuel line leaked like a sieve at the tank side, and tank itself had a crack on the side an outer layer of plastic revealing a much thinner inner layer kind of like it delaminated. It is also bulged so maybe the pressure relief hasn't been working.

My mount is a Garelick, and I've bought parts for it before but can't find where. Thinking about replacing it with wood, maybe ipe or something very dense.  Not my best boat day.

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[pgandw]

Really a bad boat day. I still feel your pain. I dunked a British Seagull once. Was able to get it running again. I did check my motor mount carefully - thanks for the heads up. I don't think the electric puts near the strain - little vibration and motor cover most covers the plastic of the mount.

I had a love/hate relationship with my 5hp Honda. When it started, it would run great - until it didn't. Usually, 1st start of day would work fine. Any starts after that on the same day were pretty iffy. This despite all my efforts with run it dry after each start, use only non-ethanol gas, one of them EPA-approved plastic tanks that got funny bulges in the sun, etc. The day came when it just stopped running, luckily about 50 yards from the dock when it quit. I used the rudder to scull to the dock, impressing my guest.

I never got that Honda started again. Sold it to a Toyota mechanic who swore he could get it running.

I was going to buy a new Tohatsu to get around my problems (Honda had been bought used), but decided to splurge and take my chances on an electric. At the time, cheapest 3hp equivalent was the Epropulsion 1.0 Spirit Plus - about $700 more than the new Tohatsu. I paid the price, and my shoulders and back have thanked me ever since.

Now, the onus is on me to sail my way out of trouble on any extended trips - I get 12+ miles range at 4kts with the electric until the battery is recharged. And that's all the range there is. Just had the sail maker evaluate my sails - said they are in very good condition. He's adding a 2nd set of reef points.

Fred W
Stuart (ODay) Mariner  Sweet P

[Charles Brennan]

Frank B, If it will help, I never used the motor mount that came with my transom bracket, since I needed more customized dimensions. 
Get me measurements for the hole spacing (both vertical and horizontal) and if they match, I'd be happy to send it to you.
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Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[Riley Smith]

Yes, a bad day. You have them. Been there. And for those that say plastic lasts forever, I give you proof. UV is a killer of plastic and it degrades it a lot quicker than you can imagine. Without much indication either. Ipe would be good. I may have a couple of short 5/4 x 3 if you need it. I'll have to FIND it though.

[Riley Smith]

Yay! Good deal CB. Lots easier. Frank, find a good outboard guy and take the motor to him. No, not the dealer because he don't care. The guy that does it for fun. You know the one I'm talking about I've been lucky to have a couple but would now have to ask around I haven't used one in so long. The first outboard I had came from such a guy. Man, that was a PREMO motor, Johnson 35 hp. It would crank the 2nd pull all the years I had it. And the price was amazing!!! I used it on the old plywood crab skiff.

[Riley Smith]

I forgot I did have a spell with a hard start and took it back to the same guy. He found a very small ty-wrap in the reed valve. Good mechanic. One of those old bayou boys I talk about.

[Charles Brennan]

Fred W, In your litany of motor woes, nowhere did I hear the words: "Sea Foam".
I used to have all the same issues you described, until I added that to the mystical incantations and witches brew of motor maintenance, while endlessly chanting Brennan's Motor Dictum:
The only thing a motor does reliably, is fail.

I dunked a British Seagull once. Was able to get it running again.

Been there, Done that, too.
Tea-bagged a British Seagull 40+ well off shore, while victim to the wake from a mega-yacht.
Motor went completely under and that would have been bad enough, but the engine was running when it immersed.
Mechanics call water inside an engine cylinder, "hydraulic lock" from in-compressibility of fluids and all that. 
Usually that will break a piston rod or crack the cylinder head in half.
On a sturdy British Seagull, it will blow out a head gasket.
And I NEEDED that motor, to get safely back into Port Everglades, or else risk playing "chicken" with Cruise Ships while short-tacking. 
Had the kids with me and commandeered one of their Juicy-Juice fruit juice cartons and used the waxed cardboard to fabricate a new head gasket.   Never ceased to be amazed, at how a Crescent wrench,  a pair of gas pliers, and a large screwdriver, were all it took to perform major motor surgery on a British Seagull outboard.
Dried off the plug and wiring, dumped the sea-water out of the carburetor bowl and the thing fired off on the second pull.
I sometimes wonder if having such a reliable and simple motor spoils you for all the rest of them.

Feel your pain, too,
Charles Brennan

[Frank B.]

Thank you for your responses.  Actions to date:  I have on order a new Tohatsu/Nissan 3.1 gallon fuel tank and a true factory manual for the specific outboard I have.  Riley, unfortunately, while that guy you speak of is cloned many times on the Coast, he does not really exist up here.  Maybe Fulton or Pickwick but they are a ways off.  So I've decided to become that guy, using good information rather than what I find in the many arguments online.

Charles I truly appreciate your offer and will measure the next time I'm at the boat which is 35 miles away, probably this coming week sometime.  However, I may choose to go with very high density, tight grained wood.  I was disturbed by the lack of notice of the failure and thought about what would be the outcome if I were out by myself when it happened rather than at the dock. Ipe is a good choice because it is not subject to weather wear, however the tools in my shop will be unhappy with that choice.  Better sharpen those blades.

Fred, no stranger to bad boat days, I looked into electric.  My current usage would justify that choice functionally.  However the calc on my boat indicates 5.6 HP needed for hull speed.  Going electric would be up in the $5/6K range for everything that is needed. 

So, I'm going to go through this thing from the gas tank to the exhaust and see what is really wrong.  While doing so will do oil changes engine and foot, maybe impeller, spark plug for sure, fuel filter, check the carb internally for issues and very carefully clean out he dirt dauber nests in the motor cover and case while I'm about it.  This motor was purchased in 2013 and for the first six years ran great, started on the second pull even when left for a month or more, ran smoothly. So what changed? Lack of use is a consideration.  Despite the 13 years I would estimate that it only has maybe 200 hours. I will find out.  My protocol was keep everything full to the gills with fuel, don't run dry, it can allow condensation to put water in the bowl, start it at least monthly, use Sea Foam in the fuel, dump the fuel tank in my truck to burn up and replace at least every six months. Worked great for six years, then it didn't.

[Charles Brennan]

Frank B, I completely understand your desire for a hefty motor mount, as someone who firmly believes:
"A Thing Worth Engineering, Is A Thing Worth OVER-Engineering!" 

The other side of the coin though, is that the old one DID last 20 some-odd years and the replacement I have on hand, might last another 20 years.
Thing is: How many of US might last another 20 years?!? 

Your Sailing Time ratio to Fabricating Time is a ratio only you can determine; just know that you have a ready option, should it prove to be workable. 
And to speed things up a little, the measurements on the mount that I have are:
3-¾" wide horizontally (on center) and 5" tall vertically (on center). 
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If the scrap of mount you have left, doesn't match the horizontal measurements on mine, then you won't have to hike out to where the boat is, since at that point the offer will be moot. 

Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[Frank B.]

Charles, you make a very good point, particularly regarding how long the original lasted and the "work on" to "use" ratio.  Mine seems to be about 3:1 the wrong way, so anything that can move that in a positive direction would be welcome.  Wish I had removed the lower half while I was up there, but will do so soon.  The upper half horizontal matches your measurement of 3-3/4".  It may be the same mount, particularly if it is a Garelick.  Mine is 2" thick with the back side having a some vertical ribbing and holes at least on this top half. The actual lift structure has a wider stance where it attaches to the boat, but the mount pad may be the same.  Back to you later on that.

pic of the mounted motor and the back side of my mount. Notice the heavy lock cable; that stays.

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[Charles Brennan]

Frank B, While I fully understand your 3:1 work/sail ratio lament, with my own 28 MONTHS to 5 HOURS ratio,    well, it's a little tough for me to dredge up sufficient sympathy, Dude!! 
I can only DREAM of approaching that ratio . . . . . . someday. 

Here's your pic:
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And the motor mount pad that I have:
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Looks as though the principle difference is an extra row of holes at the top, so this may be 1 to 1½ inches taller than yours.
The rest of the mold indentations/slots, etc. look identical and it's also 2" thick.

I honestly cannot imagine having any use for this, but it was in the category of useless-but-too-good-to-throw-away stuff that seems to be cluttering up my life, lately.
If it would expedite things (sailing season is a'coming)  I would be happy to just mail the thing up to you and you could take it with you, when you next visit the boat and if it will work, just bolt the sucker on and move on. Plus, it would also save a trip on (currently) expensive fuel costs, not to have to make two trips.
And if it doesn't work for you, then feel free to deposit it wherever the old pieces end up. 

Hope this helps,
Charles Brennan

[Frank B.]

Hey you can't count a BUILD in that ratio...if that were the case and I added my skiff build into the ratio it would be something I could not fathom. Had to make the trip anyway dimensions verified.  Looks like the hardware is slightly different, mine uses a flathead square shank to lock the head end, but since I dropped one in the drink I might as well change all four. Maybe yours is similar with washers instead of the flat head.

I truly appreciate your offer and will accept it with gratitude.  I've sent you a PM.

pic of the reunion.

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