Learned 2 things from JT: I'm tensioning the rig too much, adding ballast is OK

[tjspiel]

I missed the first part of the meeting and I'm wondering what else was discussed.

He didn't seem to think that side stay tension mattered a whole lot as long there wasn't a ton of slack on the leeward side.

Forestay tension was more important and an adjustable backstay has moved up on my to do list.

He wasn't opposed to the idea of adding more ballast into the keel cavity of the P-18 as long as it was secured. It will impact light air performance of course.

[Riggerdood]

Tom, before you came on, the discussion was mostly about the design philosophy, and where Jim's job ended and Precision' job started. As he put it, he gave them shapes, and they worked out the build details. He also provided other design specs such as rig height/style, sail area, ballast to displacement ratios, etc.

[Brian N.]

Adding ballast would have been one of the questions I would have liked to hear a discussion on. I've not considered it necessary on the P165, and prefer shifting crew.

[Riggerdood]

Brian, Dave brought it up, since Tom Scott discusses it in his book, and at least one other sailor has done it. Mainly concerning the P-18 though.

[Brian N.]

Hopefully Jim T. will join again, and I'll make sure I'm home that night.

[Quantico Frank]

I do see that you gave us a heads up, Tim, but I missed it, unfortunately. Darn it!

[Straander]

Yeah, I think the ballast discussion was focused solely on the P18.

Brian, Dave brought it up, since Tom Scott discusses it in his book, and at least one other sailor has done it. Mainly concerning the P-18 though.

[Riggerdood]

Sorry guys, I was hoping Jim's appearance would be a nice little surprise for "the regulars", but I see it kinda backfired on me.

Next time I know Jim will be on, I'll post as such in a separate topic.

[Shesaidno]

Sorry I missed Jim. Would like to know more about rig tension, at least for the P165 with no backstay. I often struggle to get enough tension, which as I understand it, improves pointing. I contemplated adding weight to the P165, but didn't see an effective way to do it and was worried that it would slow me down. I usually push as much weight (anchors, etc) forward as possible, including myself. If I get overpowered in heavier conditions, I reduce sail or spill wind.

[Riggerdood]

Ron, Straander was also present, and the rig tension discussion did include non-backstay boats such as the P-165. Again, Jim stressed that it's all about forestay tension, and in the case of no backstay, of course the job falls to the shrouds. My take was that the good news is that on a fractional rig where the forestay and shrouds all meet at the same hounds, the tension on the forestay from the shrouds is not lessened by any mast bend.

[johnandcandace]

If anyone is interested in a series of ballast discussions from the 2003 - 2009 trailersailor forums, I copied them and can send them as a word doc file. We thought the discussions were quite convincing in favor of adding ballast, and we added lead ballast bars to our P18. My doc file also has description of our work, adding the ballast, and photos.  If you'd like a copy, email me at jcmanfredi@outlook.com Perhaps someone with more forum savy could add the file to the present Trailer-Sailor forum documents.

[Captain Kidd]

If you'd like a copy, email me at jcmanfredi@outlook.com

Email sent.

[Straander]

I specifically asked about the P165 since most of the rig tension discussion was on using backstay's to control forestay tension.

As I recall, he basically said rig tensioning was not very critical at all in the P165. It should be tensioned so that there is only a tiny bit of slack in the leeward shroud in a good breeze.

Sorry I missed Jim. Would like to know more about rig tension, at least for the P165 with no backstay. I often struggle to get enough tension, which as I understand it, improves pointing. I contemplated adding weight to the P165, but didn't see an effective way to do it and was worried that it would slow me down. I usually push as much weight (anchors, etc) forward as possible, including myself. If I get overpowered in heavier conditions, I reduce sail or spill wind.

[Quantico Frank]

I specifically asked about the P165 since most of the rig tension discussion was on using backstay's to control forestay tension.

As I recall, he basically said rig tensioning was not very critical at all in the P165. It should be tensioned so that there is only a tiny bit of slack in the leeward shroud in a good breeze.

Straander, that tracks along with what Bill Porter was telling me with regards to the Loos gauge.