Precision modifications list

[talbot]

(Cross-posted from Precision Owners Facebook group)
I have to do a bunch of work today, so instead I began thinking of all the various modifications people have done to their Precision 18/21/23's. I have uploaded a list of some changes I have seen or heard about, along with their pros/cons, and what they imply.
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That last column is important. If we regret modifications, it's usually because we haven't thought through how they will affect the whole system. We install some gizmo for one purpose in the cabin or cockpit, only to find that it gets in the way of everything else we want to do.

I encourage people to add to the list and upload new versions. It might eventually give us a reference that will be useful any time we feel the urge to start drilling, splicing, gluing, spending, etc

[Riggerdood]

Very comprehensive list talbot - well done.

My RS22 came to me with many mods already accomplished by the PO(s), such as furler, bimini, etc. These are things that would not have been stock on my boat, but which I probably would have done after getting her. One thing that was done was the mainsheet being led back to the cockpit through a series of turning blocks and ending in a line clutch on the coachroof. This was all well and fine, until it came time to reef. Tensioning the halyard after setting the reef hook solo was impossible, so I removed all that nonsense and put a swivel cam on the mast, an arm's reach away from the hook, but also functional from the cockpit. Problem solved.

Things I've added/changed/removed since:

Ladder treads from Apropos Marine. Game changer if you ask the soles of my feet!

Spring-loaded latch to the extendable trailer tongue. Means I don't have to unhitch the trailer to extend/retract the extension. Saves a ton of time at the ramp.

Autorelease cleat for the rudder downhaul. No brainer.

Mast gate. Easier main handling, especially when reefing/unreefing.

12V demand 6 gal fresh water system. Boat originally had manual pump system that had been removed.

Conversion to all LED lighting, including new lightstrips for the interior. Huge power savings.

Upgraded solar panel, controller, and battery.

Steps on trailer for easier launch/retrieval at the many fingerless ramps we have out here.

Upgraded VHF and antenna, with handheld as backup.

Autotiller. If you singlehand for any long distances, this simple device can make things a whole lot more enjoyable. It's not *that* expensive, but an easy install, and probably the biggest game changer I've added to Rum Line.

Stow-A-Way mainsail tie system. Way better than conventional sail ties.

In progress, a depth finder. For this, I do need another switch, which will be a simple toggle switch mounted next to the existing panel. I'm about half done with this project, and when the rain ends later this week, I hope to finish the install.

And lastly, a splicing kit, and finally learning how to properly splice double braid after all these years!

I realize that many of the things I've listed here are probably not what you had in mind for your list talbot, but I thought I'd give a comprehensive list of improvements I've made to my 39 year old Plastic Fantastic ... 

[DBthal]

Steps on trailer for easier launch/retrieval at the many fingerless ramps we have here.

Tim,

Do you have any photos of this modification?

Dan

[Straander]

"converting boom cleats to cams"
I converted all mine to "V" cleats and I think thats perfect for the outhaul and reefing line.

Lots of these mods sound very model-specific. Maybe that needs to be a column on the sheet.

[Riggerdood]

"converting boom cleats to cams"
I converted all mine to "V" cleats and I think thats perfect for the outhaul and reefing line.

Lots of these mods sound very model-specific. Maybe that needs to be a column on the sheet.

I just changed from a horn cleat to a clam cleat for the reef line Straander. The outhaul has been a clam cleat all along.


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[Riggerdood]

Steps on trailer for easier launch/retrieval at the many fingerless ramps we have here.

Tim,

Do you have any photos of this modification?

Dan

Here ya go Dan. These are MaxxTow steps from etrailer.com.

The tongue is shown in the extended position, as it would be for launch/retrieval. The front step is as far back as it can be when tongue is retracted. The other two are positioned such that I can both operate the winch, and get around to the spare tire, which I use to climb aboard from the trailer. However, one of the things that James Steele is parting out is this ladder, which I just need to go up there and pick up. I'm hoping it will work with my trailer, if not he can sell it to someone else.

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[Quantico Frank]

Guys, I've been calling clam cleats jam cleats for a long time, and now see the error in my ways, which begs the question, what do you use jam cleats for? I've never actually seen one of these in the wild:

(https://www.westmarine.com/schaefer-5inch-jam-cleat-open-base-cleat-for-3-8inch-line-129163.html?&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=PMax:%20GSC%3eSmart_Shopping%3eSailing2023&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzc2tBhA6EiwArv-i6WGlz-N4AApG5jnaV5uFd1P1vrzj3HISRlyfMNnaGHMwkjuu7d67bRoC8dMQAvD_BwE)

[Charles Brennan]

Frank, I'm a little surprised you haven't seen jam cleats "in the wild".   
My Windrose 18 Urchin, came with them in 1977, on the main mast and for the jib cleats. The "jam" side faced down on the mast cleats, the idea being that you pulled down as hard as you could on the halyard and pulled the line into the wedge of the cleat, thus holding it firm until you could finish cleating off. 
I have 4 jam cleats on the mast, 2 jib halyards, a main halyard and a down haul cleat.
(The very bottom cleat is a non-jamming topping lift cleat.)
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The boat originally had 2 jam cleats for the jib sheets, but the lead angle wasn't right for the winches and also, I used to get line overrides on the winch.  I needed some mid-ships cleats anyway, so I re-purposed them forward and then went to cam cleats, which was a nightmare, because the lifting action on the jib sheets at the bottom of the winch would disconnect the sheets at random and inconvenient times.

Got rid of those and went to clam cleats for many years.  Still had winch line overrides until I got the bright idea to put a teak block under them to get a fair lead angle height from winch to cleat. 
No more overrides.
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That worked, but I still had problems with jib sheets popping free when I didn't want them to, or being "stuck" in the cleat and requiring inordinate force to pull them free again, at random and inconvenient times.  At times of frustration, it seemed to me the two binary states of the clam cleats, was jamming when I didn't want then to, and slipping when I didn't want them to.   

FINALLY, it occurred to me that I originally removed the jam cleats because of the lead angle to the winch and also the override issue. I had fixed the lead angle problem when I installed the clam cleats and the override issue when I installed the teak blocks.
Hey! Why not put a jam cleat on a teak block?!?   
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This is hands down, the best jib sheet solution I've seen, in the 46 years I've owned the boat and a joy to use.   
So on my boat, I have no less than EIGHT jam cleats on board.
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Big Believer,
Charles Brennan

[talbot]

Great discussion. Keep it up. I will modify the spreadsheet with additional mods the next time I am trying to avoid gainful employment.

Some of these changes have been discussed at length here, but I don't remember all the details. If you have posted about a modification, please remind us or repost. Remember the format: pro's, con's, and system implications. (Like, if you install a radio or chartplotter inside the cabin, that means you are going to have to leave the companionway open underway, even if you are taking waves or rain.)

Straander's point is a good one. P23's come with an anchor light, for instance, so that mod isn't needed for the boat. I could add a column for noting what boats the suggestions apply to.

[Riggerdood]

Frank, I think clam cleat might be a brand name of what Straander more appropriately refers to as a V cleat. Not sure.

Very good description of the jam cleat Charles. My boat would have had them for the jib sheets originally, but a PO converted them to cam cleats. They are mounted on angled "shims" to ensure correct alignment to the winches.

[Quantico Frank]

Frank, I'm a little surprised you haven't seen jam cleats "in the wild".

Thanks, Charles, I've obviously led a sheltered life! Never ran into them before. They look pretty interesting, and I would love to talk it over with the TSHH folks tonight but have a dinner I have to go to. I originally had horn cleats for my halyards which I replaced with cam cleats. The jib sheets for both my Precisions went through cam cleats from the beginning. I need to think how I could use jam cleats and whether they would be any kind of improvement for me. BTW, I completely share your opinion of clam cleats which I am using with my mainsail out-haul and could stand an upgrade.

[Quantico Frank]

(Like, if you install a radio or chartplotter inside the cabin, that means you are going to have to leave the companionway open underway, even if you are taking waves or rain.)

Talbot, I just want to point out that if you buy the right kind of fixed VHF, which I did last offseason, you can also rig a second mic/receiver for your cockpit which will allow you communicate from the cockpit while your cabin is buttoned up. It's very handy, but a bit more expensive and requires additional wiring.

[talbot]

Talbot, I just want to point out that if you buy the right kind of fixed VHF, which I did last offseason, you can also rig a second mic/receiver for your cockpit which will allow you communicate from the cockpit while your cabin is buttoned up. It's very handy, but a bit more expensive and requires additional wiring.

I've seen that during my catalog browsing. But that's what I mean about the "system." If you want to button up the cockpit, AND you want a fixed mount VHF, you are looking at a second mic, plus the mast wiring, antenna, and circuitry to take advantage of the radio. That's the point where a buyer should consider whether they will really be out of line of sight. A harbor sailer might actually be OK with a handheld that lives in a PFD pocket.

[Straander]

Frank, I think clam cleat might be a brand name of what Straander more appropriately refers to as a V cleat. Not sure.

Very good description of the jam cleat Charles. My boat would have had them for the jib sheets originally, but a PO converted them to cam cleats. They are mounted on angled "shims" to ensure correct alignment to the winches.

I actually mixed them up when posting that. I converted all the horn cleats on my boom to "Clam" cleats which are most assuredly different then "V" cleats. A "V" cleat is what I use on my boom vang and cunningham.

[Riggerdood]

Frank, I think clam cleat might be a brand name of what Straander more appropriately refers to as a V cleat. Not sure.

I actually mixed them up when posting that. I converted all the horn cleats on my boom to "Clam" cleats which are most assuredly different then "V" cleats. A "V" cleat is what I use on my boom vang and cunningham.

So I'm thinking that maybe this is what you are referring to Straander? My DS had this on it for the outhaul, and it did not work well at all for that, so I replaced it with a clam cleat.

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