How to rinse Monty 15 shoal keel innards after saltwater voyages?

[gwhiz]

I have a 1986 Montgomery 15... 95% of the sailing I do is in saltwater... How to best prevent or at least delay the dreaded "swollen ballast oxidation" problem that (I hear) eventually squeezes against the centerboard so it cannot be raised/lowered?

I bought some "salt-away"... After spraying down and wiping every square inch of the boat that I can reach**, I then dump a bucket of the stuff in the cockpit, put the hose in there too and let it rinse and drain for 10 minutes.

Bad for water conservation, bad for water bills, is it even effective? A friend advises me that's it's probably not since the drain only flushes part of the trunk.

Any good guidance out there how to do it better?

I've dreamed up putting one trailer tire on the curb, crawling under there while everything is still dry (I'm a baby), and then fitting some "bladder" over the entire keel opening that seals well enough. I'm calling this a "Cloaca Rinsing Bladder" because it's absurd... This bladder would have a female hose attachment, somehow seal upside down despite tapered keel housing and gravity pulling it downwards & off... I'd then attach a hose there and the overpriced dispenser would shoot the dang salt-away upwards into the entire opening. Magically it would not allow backflow but have enough water pressure to partially fill the cockpit and only drain back once I remove the Bladder...

Yeah, even writing that hurts my sense of reality. Any kind, helpful guidance much appreciated. Pick "helpful" if both are not possible.

Thanks,

-Gary
Santa Cruz, CA

P.S. **I'm reluctantly buying the overpriced salt-aay mixer/dispenser after sending this message
P.P.S. the brute force method I'll do without a better idea--I think--is to put one trailer tire on the curb, watch where the cockpit drain comes out and then use the overpriced salt-away dispenser to spray upwards into the keel housing everywhere else for a few minutes. Seems especially... messy and wet "fun"

[Riley Smith]

Gary, I suspect that product is actually VERY cheap to reproduce in-situ.
 A quick look online shows  "Salt can cause corrosion on metal surfaces, but there are ways to neutralize it. Using a vinegar solution or a baking soda paste can help neutralize salt and prevent further damage to metal. Regular cleaning and applying a protective coating can also help keep metal surfaces free from salt and corrosion."
  I'm assuming you have a cap on your centerboard and can't access the process where gravity can help. My best guess to a good solution is to cram the garden hose in the slot from the bottom and let it run. Oh...forgot about the metered water. Yeah, that'll still work but you'll have to stand by and not run off on another chore where one can just let it go for a while. I'd be more tempted to take the boat to a car wash and maybe carry a jack to get the tilt
 Cool boat, will you post some pics? I think the builder used to hang around here some or maybe I'm getting old and dreaming. Anyway, if you can get a pic resized and uploaded, and then hit insert on the icon that pops up, it'll put the link where you position the cursor in the post. Not too hard IF your photo program didn't take that resize funcion away....SMH.

 I'm also not sure about the Monty 15 centerboard problem. There are several on the board that have coated their steel centerboard to prevent "swelling". Along with the previously mentioned washing it down, that's probably the best course of action to prevent the dreaded "swelling".

[Dave Scobie]

I'm also not sure about the Monty 15 centerboard problem. There are several on the board that have coated their steel centerboard to prevent "swelling".

The Montgomery 15 centerboard of that era is a fiberglass shell that is ballasted with with steel punchings, the cast off centers from manufacturing washers, embedded in resin. The total weight is about 45 lb. The M15 does not have a cast iron sheet like the older M17s.

[Dave Scobie]

Gary,

You are making a problem where one really doesn't exist. I know multiple Montgomery 15s, including one I owned, that sail in saltwater and are still sailing with absolutely no centerboard problems. Forcing water under pressure will in my opinion cause a greater problem and a greater likelihood of breaking the seal of the fiberglass shell and getting water into the steel. Ballast of the centerboard.

The centerboard sticking is usually caused by the steel ballast in the shoal keel swelling, not the centerboard.

Leave everything well enough alone.

Go sailing.

[Riley Smith]

And there you have it! You might also check to see if you're CB has any of that fiberglass damaged due to impacts with unforeseen obstacles. That would be a prime repair to keep what you are now fearing from happening. Welcome to the world of working on boats....and sometimes SAILING them 

[Noemi - Ensenada 20]

A quick look online shows  "Salt can cause corrosion on metal surfaces, but there are ways to neutralize it. Using a vinegar solution or a baking soda paste can help neutralize salt and prevent further damage to metal.

Interesting.  Baking soda is salty.

[Riley Smith]

More like our perception of it most likely. It is alkaline and used to change the PH of water. I use it a lot to treat the pool water. I should have noted that a good spray down of the CB with a sprayer and some solution would be best before the rinse.

[gwhiz]

You are making a problem where one really doesn't exist...

Thank you, Dave. I'm also good at writing a post but forgetting to read possible replies. The problem that I'd heard of that I meant to ask about was precisely the steel ballast in the shoal keel swelling. Same advice? Nothing to be done about it, go sailing?

Thanks,

-Gary (Santa Cruz, CA)

[gwhiz]

Cool boat, will you post some pics? I think the builder used to hang around here some or maybe I'm getting old and dreaming. Anyway, if you can get a pic resized and uploaded, and then hit insert on the icon that pops up, it'll put the link where you position the cursor in the post. Not too hard IF your photo program didn't take that resize funcion away....SMH.

Hi Riley, Thanks for all the work on the nice reply. It really is a nice boat, I've had a chance to sail her quite a bit April - August. In fact, next week, my wife is coming to Huntington Lake where she will enjoy (right?!) her first time on board. (Marital--I mean maritime--happiness tips welcome!)

Per your request, here are a few photos. This is Guy Light's M-15 that he bought August 2024 ("Blue Light"). I visited him in March just before he passed away; he wanted me to buy and have the boat and had arranged for the generous David Soule to come teach me how to rig it.

First photo is in his driveway. Sadly, that was the only time Guy got to see his new sails hoisted.
Second photo is taken by George when we crossed "the slot" in late April.
Third photo (by Jon Barber or the Soules--not sure) was in Benicia day the after our aborted Napa run in late May. The red "storm jib" was a P15 lapper given to Guy by Dan Phy. (BTW that sail shredded when Rob Sampson and I ventured into strong winds at Coyote Point in July--I really would like to replace it--suggestions welcome.)

There are also some photos in the SCA article about the Cruiser Challenge but unfortunately none show me crossing the finish line first (apparently I didn't)...

-Gary

P.S. Your cryptic photo insertion coaching was perfect! Nonetheless, I put them below in all their glory instead of manually resizing them...

You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.
You cannot view this attachment.

[gwhiz]

Morning, I realized that I casually referenced all these Potter Yachter club trips, places, and people as if these are all known nouns in this forum. Maybe so, not sure who/how many/where everyone lives, so adding this footnote: Those are recent Potter Yachter California trips; George refers to George Wehrfritz, Vice Commodore of the club; George's "crossing 'The Slot'" photo was a trip described in the June newsletter (went from Marina Bay in Richmond, CA... out the Potrero Reach, u-turn to east side of Treasure Island... under the SF Bay Bridge... and then up the estuary that separates Alameda Island from Oakland/mainland).

[Riley Smith]

Very nice boat! Oh what I'd give for three more feet!!!!

 Sad that was the only time Guy saw the new sails, which are cool btw. I've always liked lapstrake hulls and the Monty sure is a fine little boat.

[casioqv]

On my previous M15 (1981) I filled and sealed the large gap along seam between the hull and centerboard trunk with West Systems epoxy and cloth, and covered with gelcoat. This substantially mitigates the risk of water intrusion into the keel trunk- I moored my M15 in a saltwater slip for years with zero swelling or water intrusion.

Most boats probably are just fully watertight, and will never have an issue even if nothing is done. It's more of a risk on boats stored in the water than dry sailed boats stored on a trailer.

For the centerboard itself, just fix and knicks or cracks with epoxy and paint immediately, before water gets in. If the centerboard does corrode, it's not nearly as big of a problem as the keel itself, you can split it in half down the middle and replace the ballast with lead shot and epoxy slurry, and reassemble.

When water does get in, it seeps in slowly under pressure from being below the waterline- no amount of fresh water rinsing will have any effect. The only way to prevent this is to make sure everything is watertight, so water doesn't leak into the ballast. Even fresh water in the ballast steel will corrode it eventually.